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Hello,

I am planning to climb Middle Palisade this weekend. During my flight to San Francisco from New York I had great fortune in that the pilot flew over Mammoth Lakes and I could see a great deal of the Sierra Crest. I was surprised to see so much snow. Has anyone been up there lately? Is this just a dusting of snow that looks fiercer than it is, or is there really a lot of snow up there? We were planning to go up the east face, the basic class 3 route. Is this recommended now? I am concerned about the couloirs frozen up with a thin layer of snow and ice.

Thanks,
Fernando

Check out the photo of the day courtesy of Deb! (from Thursday 10/8):
http://www.summitpost.org/middle-palisades/956101

As you can see, the first decent snowstorm of the season came through on Sun 10/4, ~15" average was on Bishop Pass when I came over it that evening around sunset, and it kept coming down. But temps have been well above freezing every day since, dropping down to not much below freezing at night, so most of it has melted. I went back up over Bishop Pass this last weekend to climb the W Face of N Pal on Sunday, most exposed areas were clear, but there was still a good amount of snow on the northern aspects and in sheltered areas like chutes, some of these places where the snow was collected/concentrated still had multiple feet of snow.

You'll have another week of melt, looking at the forecast temps are to remain warm but pretty much from now through the weekend there is supposed to be at least some new snow, maybe not much accumulation though:
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.ph ... h3LUyuKJSA

So kind of hard to say what you'll run into on Saturday, but it seems the biggest risk may be having an active snow storm going on when you plan to climb.

I attached a few photos from my trip up N Pal, not the perfect view of your route that Deb had, but a few days more recent.

And here's a pano looking south from the summit, you can see Middle Pal but not the east side:
http://www.summitpost.org/view-south-fr ... 9/c-171074

I would be concerned too. This is what happened to my partner a few years ago with just a dusting of snow / ice on the 3rd class rock:
http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty_pages/romain.wacziarg/climbing/MiddlePalSept04.html
Could have been much worse...

Romain wrote:I would be concerned too. This is what happened to my partner a few years ago with just a dusting of snow / ice on the 3rd class rock:
http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty_pages/romain.wacziarg/climbing/MiddlePalSept04.html
Could have been much worse...

Good move on backing out!

It's a great route, and pretty straightforward under good conditions (though gettng across the bergshrund can be a challenge). However, I would not want to go up with even a light dusting of snow on it. Given the nature of the route, I just think it would it too sketchy.

Snow does not equal impossible. It just requires different skills and tools. All the 14ers are doable in winter.

Unless you are in top shape with proper acclimatization and requisite experience on slippery rock, I would wait for a better time. Keep an eye on the weather, there's supposed to be a Godzilla El Nino on the way. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks everyone for the great information. I am running the NY and Sacramento marathons later this year; I am in decent shape. I have all my tools. My climbing partner has done 6 of these with me. We climbed Mount Sill last year by the L-Couloir in similar conditions to Cameron's photos. Mostly I avoided the snow patches. The traverse on the back side was covered with snow, and that was unavoidable.

Unfortunately I live in New York, travel, arrangements for kids have been made... it is difficult to call it for another day. We will proceed up to Finger Lake. If it looks treacherous, we will just enjoy some great hiking at the base of the Palisades.

I have been checking the weather. For Saturday it seems to indicate 50% chance of snow showers and 0.5" accumulation.

Sounds good, but I would check Howard Sheckter's weather report out of Mammoth Lakes, he is the best source for Sierra Weather. Good luck.

Pretty cruddy conditions back there for Mid Pal. Even crampons aren't going to be of much use as the ice on the moraine and up the glacier isn't thick enough/even enough to provide good purchase. The smattering of young snow just makes the approach all the more miserable over moraines and glacier. Add the chance of rain...ugh. You may be able to salvage a trip to A summit by going for Gayley from Willow Lake drainage and towards Glacier Notch. That SW ridge will be mostly burnt off.
FWIW, Howard is wrong as much as any other source for weather in the Sierra, not specific enough for backcountry travel either.

Deb wrote:The smattering of young snow just makes the approach all the more miserable over moraines and glacier. .

I agree. Since the trip is carved in stone already, you might as well go and check it out. I've still had trips that I thought were successful, even when I didn't climb anything, because at least I got out of town and into the mountains. Still, like Deb says, that light dusting can make for miserable travel. We got about 6 inches of snow at Gayley Camp one fall and had to walk down those slabs to Sam Mack. It was sketchy and miserable. Everyone took a good spill three or four times, each time feeling really lucky we didn't twist an ankle or knee. Don't really want to do that again. Have fun but be careful.

fernandoe@yahoo.com wrote:
Unfortunately I live in New York, travel, arrangements for kids have been made... it is difficult to call it for another day. We will proceed up to Finger Lake. If it looks treacherous, we will just enjoy some great hiking at the base of the Palisades.

None of my business really, and I don't know what you look for in a climb, but it seems like the main thing you're committed to is a 2- or 3-day climb within driving distance of San Francisco. You won't have trouble getting a permit at this time of year, and there are a lot of good peak climbs in the Sierra, including a number you could do as day trips (which would limit exposure to bad weather), and others which wouldn't depend as much as Middle Pal does on chutes with a relatively high likelihood of ice. You could probably get suggestions here if you're of a mind to.

...and never mind that it has been raining its ass off at lower elevations since last night....I fear that your weekend will be miserable and unproductive if you come to the east side.

I am coming to Bishop and Middle Palisade. The main thing for me is to get together with friends. With kids, it is really hard to set things up to get away and changing really means cancelling. If we don't summit anything, it will be ok. Any day in the palisades is paradise.. There will be some tequila, bourbon, and some stories. As far as the misery factor, I have a really high tolerance for what would make me unhappy, a winter north of the Aleutians in a ship in freezing wind with 40 foot seas, a bivouac near Mount Sill in October, two marathons with a slight fracture in my foot. So I think I have an open mind for it not being a good climbing trip. All the information you have given me is really helpful. Thanks.

I have no climbing resume or anything like that, but I have summited MidPal twice. The hardest part to me was finding the spot where you leave the glacier to ascend the face, which with fresh snow could be a slippery affair. The first time I was with a friend and the face was dry, The second time I was alone, but there was a lot of (spring) snow in the chute, the broad chute you ascend when you leave the glacier. The snow did not feel solid, so I moved left and ascended the rib that bordered the chute. That worked out just fine. Middle Palisade is an awesome mountain, certainly one of the best. And I understand about having kids, but there are many other peaks that this late in the season would probably be a better choice. Mid Pal and Disappointment have A LOT of loose rock, which with new snow would make harder to determine what is loose and what is solid. Anyhow, the best to you in whatever you decide.

edited: several years ago I went to CO to ascend the Bells. I flew to Aspen, got an expensive room, and it snowed two feet that night! So I wound up ascending Castle and Conundrum instead. So I understand, but you also need an alternate plan if the weather goes to pot.