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Luciano136 wrote:I personally like Newcomb's but only at night when everyone is gone. It's fun after a little snow outing in the local mountains.

As far as motorcycles, I ride one too and some guys are good about it but then of course, you have the douches that think they are on a race track and spoil the fun for everyone else.

Of course there's plenty of responsible riders, your right Luciano. they're not all douches, sorry for the sterotyping

One time, going up to go hiking, we were caught in a pack of slow moving cars. Though they were at least going the speed limit, so I just sat back and followed, since there's no legal passing, and there was at least a 4 cars in front of us. Then a pack of "riceburners" came flying up, all dogged down by us slow cars. Immediatley they began passing, jumping in and out between the cars, couple near misses with oncoming traffic...I mean they were insane, racing like it WAS really a race! Then a couple of em flipped off the driver of the car in front as they swerved at him.

I actually don't have a problem with either cars or motorcycles speeding as fast as they want, speed can be fun. It's mostly the crazy passing and coming around turns on the wrong side of the road that I'm bitching about.

Rob wrote:I actually don't have a problem with either cars or motorcycles speeding as fast as they want, speed can be fun. It's mostly the crazy passing and coming around turns on the wrong side of the road that I'm bitching about.

I agree and those guys WILL eat it sooner or later. If you want to survive on a bike, you better ride responsibly. It's unbelievable how many 18y old kids get on a crotch rocket and all of a sudden, they think they are superman. Respect the machine or else...

Here's a pic of the new bridge on the Vincent side (between Dawson and Vincent). Looks expensive!


Click here for full size

Gary Schenk wrote:With the money crunch the question is will the California Transportation Commission continue to sink money into a road that goes nowhere and serves no commercial interest.

What's the priority, a road to nowhere, or the 605/10 interchange?

The San Gabriels are a wonderful place to roam and backpack. They are home, and should be wild again.

The simple fact is that most of us don't have the time to invest two days worth of hiking to reach the inner part of the range. Think how much saner a big chunk of the population is having quick access to the wilderness on the weekends.

kevin trieu wrote:but what about the awesome road riding?!?

It would be even better if there were no cars on it.

Gary Schenk wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:The SGW... go around Mermaid Massif, south side of Twin Peaks, the cool rockfields on the less-than-accessible sections above Cogswell Dam, ain't gonna see many people there for sure.

A highway cuts the range in half. There ain't no wilderness. On the other hand, you're right about above Cogswell.

There is a flaw in this thinking...

the lights of Los Angeles and the San Gabriel Valley will ALWAYS penetrate the night sky of the San Gabriel Mtns, therefor, removing the road will do nothing for the wilderness.

i say KEEP the road and enjoy the backcountry. The crest will never be the wilderness it once was...

Gary Schenk wrote:

x15x15 wrote:

Gary Schenk wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:The SGW... go around Mermaid Massif, south side of Twin Peaks, the cool rockfields on the less-than-accessible sections above Cogswell Dam, ain't gonna see many people there for sure.

A highway cuts the range in half. There ain't no wilderness. On the other hand, you're right about above Cogswell.

There is a flaw in this thinking...

the lights of Los Angeles and the San Gabriel Valley will ALWAYS penetrate the night sky of the San Gabriel Mtns, therefor, removing the road will do nothing for the wilderness.

i say KEEP the road and enjoy the backcountry. The crest will never be the wilderness it once was...

What backcountry? I want the backcountry back. If I have to walk a day to get there, I just don't see that as a drawback.

well gary, there is a bunch of backcountry in the crest, and i access a bunch of it from the ACH. it probably has more to do with semantics than anything else. ones person's backcountry is another person's trash pit... unfortunately, "wilderness" has been defined by the US Governement, and there will never be wilderness in the crest again... unless humans die!

Keep The ACH Open!

Gary, how about they keep the ACH open and when you want to go up there on your multi-day backcountry wilderness treks just let us know. We'll be sure to stay down here in the city. We can close the ACH so you don't have to hear the motorized vehicles. We'll get the DWP to dim the city lights so you won't be distracted by the urban glow at night. We'll release the captive bears, lions and big horns to make it feel more wild for you. Heck we'll even release the captive grizzly bears to really bring you back to when the San Gabriels were truly wild.

A bit of an elitist attitude you have there.

All hyperbole aside, and more to the point, closing the ACH will never happen - it lets everyone enjoy the mountains regardless of physical, financial, etc. situation while maintaining a very reasonable amount of "wilderness" for those who are so inclined to enjoy.

Gary Schenk wrote:

testid wrote:Gary, how about they keep the ACH open and when you want to go up there on your multi-day backcountry wilderness treks just let us know.

I think you may not know what you've lost because of ACH.

But perhaps you're right. Should we call Disney and tell them we were wrong, Mineral King is all theirs? How about a highway to the Big Arroyo, so people don't need to walk two days to enjoy the beauty back there? Why should only elitists be allowed?

Why should sport climbers be denied easy access to Charlotte Dome? Why are only elitists allowed to Fish Paradise Valley?

It's a moot point anyway. Sooner or later, that highway is going to go away. Still, it's been fun chewing the fat about it with you guys.

So, just out of curiosity, how do you feel about Tioga Pass Rd or any road in Yosemite for that matter. Should we close them all?

Gary Schenk wrote:Still, it's been fun chewing the fat about it with you guys.

Yes, I enjoy banging my head against the wall as much as the next guy.

in Gary's mind, you need X square miles w/o road for something to be considered wilderness.

But X/2, whoooooa no way, it's practically urban now.

Gary Schenk wrote:I think you may not know what you've lost because of ACH.

no gary, i do not know. but then again, i aint quite as old as you.

in fact, i GAINED because of the ACH. Everything from rock and ice climbing, alpine climbing, AT touring, snow camping, etc.. i learned in the crest, BECAUSE of the ACH. so get off of your high horse and realize that not everyone wants your standards!

Gary Schenk wrote:

x15x15 wrote:

Gary Schenk wrote:

TacoDelRio wrote:The SGW... go around Mermaid Massif, south side of Twin Peaks, the cool rockfields on the less-than-accessible sections above Cogswell Dam, ain't gonna see many people there for sure.

A highway cuts the range in half. There ain't no wilderness. On the other hand, you're right about above Cogswell.

There is a flaw in this thinking...

the lights of Los Angeles and the San Gabriel Valley will ALWAYS penetrate the night sky of the San Gabriel Mtns, therefor, removing the road will do nothing for the wilderness.

i say KEEP the road and enjoy the backcountry. The crest will never be the wilderness it once was...

What backcountry? I want the backcountry back. If I have to walk a day to get there, I just don't see that as a drawback.

Why don't you move then?