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Hey SPers, two of us are heading out in a couple of days, hiking in from Onion Valley and south on the JMT for a bit, then east to Shepherd Pass, Tyndall, and Williamson. I'm interested in opinions on a couple of the basics that we still haven't made decisions about:

1) Axe and crampons. If we were just going in and out from Symmes Creek, i think we'd haul 'em in just in case. But the extra miles of hiking we do the first 2 days makes me wonder if the axe and spikes are really going to be worth their weight. We can time Forrester Pass and Shepherd Pass to not need them, but i'm wondering if we'll be sorry not to have the gear while going up Williamson. I'm better on snow than on rock, so if there's 1000' of snow to go around on the west face of Williamson, i'll want to have the gear to just go up the snow.

2) Bear can. If we camp the first night somewhere south of Vidette Meadows, the 2nd night at Shepherd, and the 3rd in Williamson Bowl, do we really need a bear can? Aren't there still several bear lockers along the JMT near Vidette? And aren't Shepherd's Pass and Williamson Bowl bear-free? My old Garcia can weighs like 3 lbs, and that's a lot of miles to be carrying that extra weight.

3) Tyndall route. What i'm reading is that North Rib is "better" than the Porcella North Ridge description. If i'm a crappy climber on rock, am i still going to be happier on the North Rib, or should i just stick to the scree/talus junk on the ridge?

4) Williamson route. I've done Muir and Split, but i'm not very confident so i'm going up with the plan that i'll probably bail and let my partner summit alone. But i might give it a shot if it seems i'm on-route and nothing looks class 4 to me. I've read and seen pictures about the furthest lake, the water mark, the chute, etc., but being a baby i'm wondering if anyone has pictures with route lines or anything? I had those for Muir and they helped me a lot.

5) boots/shoes. I'm used to wearing trail runners for everything except climbs with crampons. The crampon boots i have are warm and dry but of course suck for walking 15-mile days like we'll be doing. So what i bring depends a lot on whether i need crampons, but in the end i'm wondering: boots, shoes, or both?

Thanks for any help. It sounds like i'll see lots of you up there!

Spent July 2-5 doing Tyndall and Williamson up from the Sheperds Pass TH. Here's some info for you:

1) Axe and crampons. None of us had crampons, but we all carried an ice axe. Probably wasn't needed, but I liked having it for Sheperds Pass and the chute on Williamson. No one else in the Williamson chute was using one, but then again none of them had helmets (still not sure why!). Shepherds has snow, but in the afternoon it was slushy and not a big deal.

2) Bear can. We didn't have one and at the base of Tyndall where we camped is a long ways from any decent bear habitat.

3) Tyndall route. We summitted Tyndall via the north rib and then tried to come down the North Ridge, but got turned back due to some crags and steeep sections that we didn't want to attempt. So we went right back down the middle rib. When going up the rib you want to go through the chute at the top that veers to the left of the rib and then you want to stay on the right hand side of that chute. When we were there the chute had some snow in it. We then glissaded down the main snow chute to the right of the middle rib on our way down. It was late in the day and very slushy. Could barely get going even though it is really steep.

4) Williamson route. I thought Tyndall was a harder climb than Williamson, but I think this was due to the exposed feeling on Tyndall. In the chute on Williamson you can't see anything other than up or down. If you do WIlliamson take the chute to the top. DO NOT turn right too early or you'll find dead ends chutes. The chimney at the end was easy since I had an experienced climber with me, but I doubt I would have done it alone as I have no experience with technical climbing. Doubt any climbers would call this section technical, but for me it was interesting!

5) boots/shoes. I did the entire trip (30+ miles) up to Sheperds, ascents/descents of Williamson and Tyndall and then back to the Shepherds TH with a pair of low top Asolo hiking shoes and gaiters (gaiters a must in my opinion on both Tyndall and Williamson). Low top goretex hikers are the way to go in my opinion.

Dwayne

Thanks for any help. It sounds like i'll see lots of you up there!

Wear footwear you are comfortable hiking in, and on scree in. Don't kill your feet for minimal benefit on a small portion of the route.

Ditch the bear can, but hang your food well while in Vidette area.

Don't give up on Williamson. There are decent photos on SP, but really all you need is climb to the top of the chute and take the chimney on the right up. The route-finding is very easy. My rule of thumb the past couple years has been not to pass up until I reach the place where I might be uncomfortable. If you are uneasy, then by all means turn back, but often the task isn't as difficult as it might look from a distance.

Marmots can be a problem at Shepherd's Pass. If you leave your food unprotected while climbing Tyndall or Williamson, you might find it all over the place when you return to camp. An Ursack or the like might be helpful.

The Class 3 section is very short and easy Class 3 on Williamson.

The North Rib on Tyndall is more more like steep Class 2 than Class 3.

Oh yah, the marmots where we camped below Tyndall were thick. We hung our food bags on a section of spectra between two tall rocks.

Got stopped by a ranger a couple years ago without a bear can near Bullfrog Lake with plans to go up and over Vidette Creek that day.

He gave us three options:

1. Meet him at his cabin at Charlotte Lake at 5pm to borrow one.
2. Receive a $150 fine each.
3. Head back over Kearsarge Pass and leave the park.

Hanging food was not an option.

We decided to leave the park.

Clydascope wrote:Got stopped by a ranger a couple years ago without a bear can near Bullfrog Lake with plans to go up and over Vidette Creek that day.

He gave us three options:

1. Meet him at his cabin at Charlotte Lake at 5pm to borrow one.
2. Receive a $150 fine each.
3. Head back over Kearsarge Pass and leave the park.

Hanging food was not an option.

We decided to leave the park.

Cool- I've wondered what the penalty was. $150 EACH is a drag but with other options so be it.

But Shepherd pass does not require cannisters. Agree just hang the food off a rock for marmot protectino.

There's one bear box in Vidette maybe two . . . and south of there, about an hour, there's another camp that I think has a box, but I've always hustled on by and never gone down to check it out. Always lots of people.

But really, a bear canister is a small price to pay (and you're on the JMT) for the trouble you'll go through if you don't have one.

Since '96 I've had two daylight encounters with bears in Vidette Meadows and I've seen what happened to a few other people's gear that they left unattended––backpackers as well as those folks who come in on horse and think ice chests are indestructible AND bear proof.

Ultimately, I'd rather spend my time doing something else besides the useless attempts at hanging food, not to mention who's gonna jump up in the middle of the night and go spook that bear off––they gonna get yer food.

rlshattuck wrote:There's one bear box in Vidette maybe two . . . and south of there, about an hour, there's another camp that I think has a box, but I've always hustled on by and never gone down to check it out. Always lots of people.

But really, a bear canister is a small price to pay (and you're on the JMT) for the trouble you'll go through if you don't have one.

Since '96 I've had two daylight encounters with bears in Vidette Meadows and I've seen what happened to a few other people's gear that they left unattended––backpackers as well as those folks who come in on horse and think ice chests are indestructible AND bear proof.

Ultimately, I'd rather spend my time doing something else besides the useless attempts at hanging food, not to mention who's gonna jump up in the middle of the night and go spook that bear off––they gonna get yer food.

Agree- but there are places where they makes sense and places where they don't. I took one last weekend, as I was planning to camp one night near Vidette Meadows and another near Bullfrog. Spent one night in Center Basin. They are required in Center Basin, but if that was the only place I was headed I certainly would have left it at home.

Them there bears is everywheres . . . like I said, I'd much rather spend my time staring at the hills, or setting up my tent, than spending who knows how long trying to find all the proper elements to hang a bag that's no doubt going to get taken anyway . . . much easier to suffer the weight of a canister and then not have to spend all night thinking about it . . . and I suck at chucking rocks into trees.

I'm very confused. The regulations i'm reading say that bear canisters are recommended, but only required in a couple of areas like Rae Lakes, which i won't be in. How could you get fined at Bullfrog Lake??

I would be one night at a bear box in Vidette, and 2-3 nights in the Williamson area.

On bear boxes:

"Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Park
Locations of Food Storage Lockers

Select the area you wish to visit (generally listed from north to south):

...Bubbs Creek Trail (CANISTERS REQUIRED, LOCKERS FOR PCT & JMT THRU-HIKERS)..."

http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/bear_box.htm

At Kearsarge Pass

markv wrote:I'm very confused. The regulations i'm reading say that bear canisters are recommended, but only required in a couple of areas like Rae Lakes, which i won't be in. How could you get fined at Bullfrog Lake??

I would be one night at a bear box in Vidette, and 2-3 nights in the Williamson area.

This map shows where you are supposed to have canisters. Bullfrog Lake is smack in the middle of the required area. South of Forester Pass you are good, ranger or no ranger.

http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/u ... 070418.pdf

I summited Williamson yesterday. I did not bring and axe and crampons and I was pretty happy with my decision. I was able to bypass the snow by scrambling up some rocks on the right side with little difficulty. Here are a few pics from yesterday. I hope this helps you with your decision.

Clydascope wrote:At Kearsarge Pass

Saw that sign last weekend... noted it is out of date though. Weapons are now A-OK.