SummitPost.org

http://www.experience-az.com/coolstuff/permitinfo.html

We wanted to go by Weaver's Needle; the summitpost entry describes "no permits for dayhiking." But people have been hassled for just being on the access road. Can AZ folks shed any light?

Thanks.

If you get out of your Jeep and hike, bike, camp or bird watch, you need a permit.

Wow. Then again, I doubt some Arizona rent-a-cop will bother you if you're a couple hundred yards from where he can drive, so just don't walk right on the road.

I have no specific knowledge of Weavers Needle and the entries on hikearizona.com don't say anything about hassles, although there may be a parking fee at the trailhead? I don't know whose land it is on.

The State Trust Land thing has been around for a while. Some significant fraction of Arizona belongs to the State Trust which is constitutionally obligated to raise money (which is supposed to go to funding schools) by either selling off land or charging fees for use permits. See for example http://www.azland.gov/programs/natural/rec_permitFaqs.htm.

From a conservation perspective this sell-off mandate is insane, I know. It occasionally causes messed up issues where some entity (government or conservancy) has to buy land from the state to keep a developer from getting it and screwing up nearby conserved areas. Accepting that and moving on, some recreational areas are on trust land and you're supposed to get that permit. A few years ago when I moved to AZ the annual fee was $50, but much less for hunting (perhaps because they already paid for a hunting license?) That was truly obnoxious. Since then it's gone down, but it's still obnoxious.

I just hiked at the Peralta Trailhead yesterday--the trailhead you will use to access Weaver's Needle. The road to the trailhead I think goes through State Trust land, but I have never had troubles there in 15 or so years. It may be that you are not supposed to stop on State Trust land, but I have parked out there before and hiked in when the road was flooded without issue. The trailhead and hikes are on Tonto National Forest/ Superstition Wilderness Area land so it is no problem. No fees either. There used to be but fees ended in 2006. An overnight trip would require a permit I think, but for a daytrip there is no red tape.

Enjoy the Needle, it will be a long day I think, but great views from the summit. If you need any other info let me know.

No worries on the drive in. There have been problems with 4wheelers and target shooting on state trust land off that road so the deputies get called once in awhile. Watch out for the longhorns on the road since the cattle are grazing there now. You don't need a permit for any overnight stays - Superstition Wilderness rules make groups up to 15 ok for stays up to 14 days with no permits or fees required. If you're camping, camp wherever you want on Tonto National Forest land or in the wilderness itself. There's even a cool little hidden spot just S of the main parking lot 10 feet over the fence with a picnic table and enough room for a tent and a small campfire. You've done a lot so you probably already know about half the climbers head up Peralta over the saddle and camp near the base of Weaver's just E of the trail if they don't want to do it in a day. There's actually water there right now since we had a good rain awhile ago. Hope you have a lot of fun and post pictures after.

Howdy -- I think this issue has come to the attention of the local authorities, as the sign at Peralta parking very clearly states that no fee is required.

There is actually legal camping in the southern lot, a few hundred neters to the south of the trailhead parking; the camping is to the SE, across from the equestrian (unlabeled) hitching post, and has several fire rings. I got there rather late, and my compadres wanted to car-camp in the uppermost parking. I went to the upper lot, set up my tent in the space by the picnic table, just south of the lot... and at 4PM, saw a "no camping" sign! It's not totally clear if that sign was just meant for the parking lot, but when the sun set at 5:30PM MST, I just sacked out... and broke camp the next morn at 4AM, never bothered by anyone.

On the way in to the Peralta trailhead, there were lots of ominous signs that discussed AZ trust land. But once we hit the Tonto national forest boundary, the attitude totally changed. As suggested above, the US marshals were probably confused, sent out to clear squatters from the AZ lands.

We had a great trip to Weaver's Needle, via Bluff Springs trail, Terrapin Trail, and a cairned use trail right to the base of the cliffs. A bit less than 7 h car-to-car, water on the way. This is the time of year to go, if you don't have to deal with ice on the route.



I have to wonder... why do we have so many Spanish place names that have "tonto"? That seems like a slightly insulting word...

MoapaPk wrote:I have to wonder... why do we have so many Spanish place names that have "tonto"? That seems like a slightly insulting word...

MoapaPk,
FWIW, Will C. Barnes says this in Arizona Places Names under Tonto Apaches (pg 447, 1988 ed):
Sp. "fools." So called by the early Spanish. "They are a mixture of several Apache and and Yuman tribes, principally Coyoteros, Yavapai, Yuma and Mohave. Were first placed on reservation at Camp Verde, 1873. Removed to San Carlos, 1875." Hodge.
Bancroft says: "Because of their notorious imbecility, the Spanish called them fools-stupid."
This seems hardly possible unless the Spanish themselves were very stupid or met first, some odd individuals of these peoples, who are by no means either fools or stupid.
Thanks for the reminder/pict on Weaver's Needle. I've been meaning to get down there for some time and take a shot at it (life's been getting in the way) .Looks like you had a good trip.
Best,
JM

Nicely done, & thanks for the pics. Glad you had a good time.

MoapaPk wrote:I have to wonder... why do we have so many Spanish place names that have "tonto"? That seems like a slightly insulting word...

I lived in a place with the name, "Tonto Basin," for 12 years .... only thing "insulting" were rednecks with diesel trucks pulling OHV trailers and bass boats
honking at me because I was driving the speed limit with my canoe and backpack in route to my favorite hiking spot. I referred to these folks as HONKIES.

Can't believe I put up with that crap for 12 years --- I must have been stupid