SummitPost.org

My Patagonia Ready Mix jacket (bought at my local Patagonia outlet for something like $100) is thin, light, sheds wind, has a helmet compatible hood, breathes much better than a hardshell and works well with a harness. I like it as a top layer over a Windshirt or fleece. And the color coordinates with alpine ice. I have an Arcteryx softshell jacket with polartec that I got as a Christmas present and that is my favorite around town jacket, but as it doesn't have a hood I don't find it that useful for real climbing.

Softshell is the bomb. It breathes. It sheds. If you have a softshell and don't like it that is because you were to cheap to get a good one. A good softshell will cost. You get what you pay for.

Denjem wrote:Softshell is the bomb. It breathes. It sheds. If you have a softshell and don't like it that is because you were to cheap to get a good one. A good softshell will cost. You get what you pay for.

Hmm...I disagree. You get what you pay for with hardshells (read: eVent) but once you pass the basic quality mark, almost all softshells are fairly comparable. I agree, look between 75-150 for a softshell. If I know it's going to rain, I bring the hardshell. If it isn't going to rain, I don't bring the softshell and I still pack the hardshell (just in case...).

My softshell only sees time when I don't care about layering or weight. In other words, everywhere except the mountains.

I'd offer that lightweight softshells are a good top layer when you are in wet environments but you are working hard, like snow or ice climbing, or even carrying a pack on a trail where there is light off-and-on drizzle. I.e., where you are going to get exposed to some water in the environment but also may be generating enough perspiration that a hardshell might cause you to get wet from the inside out.

JHH60 wrote:I'd offer that lightweight softshells are a good top layer when you are in wet environments but you are working hard, like snow or ice climbing, or even carrying a pack on a trail where there is light off-and-on drizzle. I.e., where you are going to get exposed to some water in the environment but also may be generating enough perspiration that a hardshell might cause you to get wet from the inside out.

Totally agree.

Pallando wrote:My softshell only sees time when I don't care about layering or weight. In other words, everywhere except the mountains.

Wondering what softshell you are using? I have no problem using either of mine as a component of a layering system. And the weight of either isn't and issue.

MH Torch in colder/windy/damp environments

MH Chockstone in warmer environments

Denjem wrote:Softshell is the bomb. It breathes. It sheds. If you have a softshell and don't like it that is because you were to cheap to get a good one. A good softshell will cost. You get what you pay for.

I have a $200 Patagonia Softshell (Mixmaster?) And I have found that it breathes no better than a light rain shell. But unlike my rain shell, it DOES NOT SHED RAIN AT ALL!

There have been a couple of times where I have been caught in the mountains during sustained light to moderate rain while wearing this jacket and I swear I became almost hypothermic. The hood would leak and send cold water down my back and eventually down my legs. After a couple of hours the whole thing would be soaked an useless. It has even become saturated in heavy wet snow.

The only thing good about an expensive soft shell is that it sheds wind. But, a simple windbreaker like the Patagonia houdini will do this- yet it is only a fraction of the weight (and half the price).

Any soft shell that weighs more than 5 ounces is impractical for most adventures. I wouldn't dare waste my money on another one. Get a lighweight hard shell.

I also like the Ready Mix (though it's been discontinued). I only use it at higher altitudes and in winter though, when I expect snow not rain. Seems to work pretty well for ice climbing, snowshoeing, etc. Wore it several times up Shasta during the past couple of years.

I do have an expensive Rab eVent rain jacket, but strangely I have yet to use it .. my old marmot precip anorak still works well, though I reapplied the DWR with nikwax this year (usually I throw it in my alpine pack for rock climbing).

I like schoeller pants a lot too. I picked up some of the older REI convertible pants when they went on sale. Mammut's stuff has worked well for me also.

Calling the marmot driclime a softshell is a bit strange .. basically it's an insulated windshirt. I have an uninsulated windshirt (old Montane featherlite, 3 oz) that works well in summer and lower elevations (see my profile pic ) I like the driclime for winter or higher altitude stuff. It's also great to sleep in while snowcamping I can dry my socks overnight in between it and my base layer.

edit: here's an example - cool & breezy morning on Eichorn Pinnacle's north face -



I (heart) marmot driclime

Always been a fan of the base-fleece-hard shell system personally, but one of my mates swears by his Mountain Equipment softshell.

http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the ... ket---240/

If you care about weight, then softshell is NOT the way to go.

IF you like bombing around town where you don't get wet and you don't sweat then by all means buy a soft shell. You will look cool too!

If its raining and you have to move then a nylon wind shirt is far superior as it breathes more. If you are moving then you are sweating. If you are not moving then, why bother with a "soft shell" in the first place. Good ol' fleece with wind shirt over or hard shell is superior.

Soft shells are nothing but a marketing gimmick for those who want something that looks nice for around town. Those who go iceclimbing do little day climbs where they don't give a damn about weight, but rather function. 1 zipper instead of 2 quite often.

Anyone who actually evaluates their gear that they have to haul into the mountains will quickly realize that not only is everything cheeper than a soft shell, but also for the same weight is far warmer, or far more wind proof. Synthetic jacket or fleece + windshirt is far far warmer for same weight if you use a "softshell"

The schoeller soft shell fabrics that are "water-proof" are the only exception, but then they don't breath nearly as well either.

Softshells are nothing but marketing gimmicks that look cool, but functionally suck nutz to the mountain climber. Bonking around town doing day climbs is entirely different can of worms and softshells rule dayclimbing activities.

JackCarr wrote:Always been a fan of the base-fleece-hard shell system personally, but one of my mates swears by his Mountain Equipment softshell.

http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the ... ket---240/

Wastral wrote:If you care about weight, then softshell is NOT the way to go.

Wastral wrote:
If its raining and you have to move then a nylon wind shirt is far superior as it breathes more. If you are moving then you are sweating. If you are not moving then, why bother with a "soft shell" in the first place. Good ol' fleece with wind shirt over or hard shell is superior.

Agreed. Lightweight windshirt and lightweight insulation packs smaller, is probably lighter, and is more layerable than softshell.

The softshell I have now has a fleece lining ( ) so isn't suitable for summer really. Even my REI softshell before would be a bit too warm. A 3-5 oz. Windshirt is much lighter and cooler, yet will shed water at about the same rate. An insulation fleece added into the mix will provide the warmth, if you need it.

Insulated windshirts like the Marmot DriClime... I haven't tried, but this doesn't seem any better than a softshell.

Deff got a lot to think about. I already have a hardshell so I could try layering. Marmot minimalist jacket. Would a coldware under armour shirt suffice for a patagonia base layer. Still would need a good mid-layer

aemter wrote:I currently just use a 3 layer system - baselayer, middle (insulating), and shell. Seems more versatile to me. One of my next purchases will be a Driclime jacket.

+1. I prefer Patagonia Capilene base layer, Marmot Ion windshirt, Montbell UL Thermawrap jacket and MHW hard shell (I forget the model).

My problem with fleece is that it is heavy and bulky. I agree with soft shell for the legs though. Once they go on they just about don't come off until I'm off the mountain.

I'm thinking of getting a Mountain Hardwear Microchill Fleece for a mud layer but it's real light. Will it be alright in colder weather as long as I have a good baselayer? Gotta figure out if I want a m or L

From November through April, I use my MH Torch. May through October is reserved for my Arc'Teryx Epsilon SV. The SV is the most durable jacket I've ever worn. It's pretty simple: hood with a small brim and draw cords, hem draw cord, two hand pockets (hipbelt accessible) that double as core venting, microfiber liner around the face. I love it. It works well and looks good to boot.

The Torch is heavier duty. Ask Alpinisto for full details, but I highly recommend it.