SummitPost.org

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:53 am**

delete

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:53 am**

Don't use one.
GPS is no subsitute for awareness, common sense and map/compass. You'll learn more and steer yourself better by paying attention to your surroundings vs. a 3-4" screen.

I only bring a GPS if I'm expecting white-out conditions or needing to take cords for pages here at SP.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:58 am**

The Chief wrote:GP WHAAAT??????

Learn your map & compass and become proficient at it. It will most certainly save your ass one day.

I neither use GP whaaat in the mountains, just map, compass and altimeter :wink:

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:45 am**

I think we've settled it. If you want to be a real rough-tough he-man, don't use a GPS. Instead bring a compass, which you can claim to know all about; at least, you probably know which end of the needle sorta points north.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:16 am**

Dingus Milktoast wrote:I don't even bother with a compass. I barely bother with beta. (the ole BBB).

I'm with DMT on that one. If I'm going to a place I haven't been before, I might carry a map but I usually just wander around blindly. I know that I'm the type that SAR people really hate, but my only run-ins with SAR in the last 35 years is when helping them rescue others (and once having them called by an over-anxious group from the SC).

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:23 am**

Dingus Milktoast wrote:It kills the part of peak bagging I most enjoy - the uncertainty, the exploration, the 'finding my own way.'

I can totally buy into the uncertainty, etc. but at the end of the day(s) of "getting lost" you need to get back, the GPS can be a great aid.

In my own experience, a GPS has not taken away from that primitive feeling, but that's me.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:27 am**

MoapaPk wrote:I think we've settled it. If you want to be a real rough-tough he-man, don't use a GPS. Instead bring a compass, which you can claim to know all about; at least, you probably know which end of the needle sorta points north.

Get in with one of these comp's and you might just learn something, MoapaPk. You'd be surprised at what one can do with a map and compass in ANY environment, in any weather condition and a in any location.

At SERE, we competed in several DOD SERE ten day/night orienteering EVASION comps throughout the year which were held in many different locations. One was held at McChord Air Force Base, WA, once a year, in dense forest and heavy fog. NO GPS's were allowed in any comp. Strictly map and compass. Just as we taught all our students... pilot's, intel personnel and SPECWAR dudes, in order to evade the enemy behind enemy lines.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:29 am**

goldenhopper wrote:
Dingus Milktoast wrote:I don't even bother with a compass. I barely bother with beta. (the ole BBB).

Has nothing to do with being a tough guy. It has everything to do with 'not needing one.'

If I were in a big mountain whiteout I'd surely want one and most likely need one.

But for day in and day out?

GPS takes away the very thing I seek. It kills the part of peak bagging I most enjoy - the uncertainty, the exploration, the 'finding my own way.'

I have no problem with e-gadgets in the back country. I carry iPod frequently, avi transciever, headlamps that are in every sense 'advanced electronics', yada yada yada.

As a principle I think the complete mapping of every point in the whole world is a dreadful thought.

But I own one for the car haha.

DMT

Well said DMT. It's not at all about being a tough guy, it's about having fun. So if using GPS is fun for you, then you woosies should feel free electro-navigate your way all day long.

I think the word is "wussies"

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:33 am**

Heh, the guy who says he finds snow-camping 'miserable' is calling me a 'woosie' :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:10 pm**

rhyang wrote:
goldenhopper wrote:
woodsxc wrote:
The Chief wrote:GP WHAAAT??????

Learn your map & compass and become proficient at it. It will most certainly save your ass one day.

+1. Absolutely right Chief.

Save yourself some green too. Get a topo map, look over it before you leave, do a little bit of research, and you'll be fine.

+2

IMO the idea of using an electronic device to navigate seems contrary to the whole point of being in the wilderness.

For a long time I thought as you did. If you spend most of your time in the eastern sierra or southern california (and really most of the sierra) a GPS is mostly unnecessary. The terrain is usually open and landmarks easily sighted.

Mostly I set my waypoints and forget about them until I'm back home, plotting them on a map for later use.

But if you spend most of your time in the eastern sierra and / or southern california, then you probably don't know what the term 'thick forest' really means And then there are folks who just enjoy getting themselves lost .. hey, whatever floats your boat

And if you've ever spent time wandering up desert canyons, going into drainages, out of drainages, .. hey, which drainage are we in again ? Is this map correct ? Nope, it sure isn't .. then you know what I'm talking about. It's a more critical situation to know where you are and how to get out when there isn't any water except what you are carrying on your back and you can't see any landmarks. For map & compass navigation in those situations you really have to be careful.

I'm with Rhyang on this one. In the Sierras who even needs a compass. I usually just get by with a good map and you can triangulate off of terrain. On a couple of climbs I've been on recently, the approaches involve going up the only feasible path which is a drainage which is a decent slot which impedes a lot of your view and the brush impedes whats left in many areas (mainly the entrance to the second drainage where the last climb I did was in).

For this I use a Garmin Vista Hcx. I've used tthem in whiteouts also and I have to say it is nice (when you can't see more then 30 or 40 ft).

But I agree with the Chief that don't become over-reliant on technology and stop using your brain.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:28 pm**

I use my cellphone (Nokia N78) which has a gps embedded. my cellphone is my camera too :wink:

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:54 pm**

The Chief wrote:
Get in with one of these comp's and you might just learn something, MoapaPk. You'd be surprised at what one can do with a map and compass in ANY environment, in any weather condition and a in any location.

Go back and read the thread Chief. I mapped with an actually sighting compass for real, as part of my job, and have navigated thriough 8 whiteouts by map and compass. After reading your implication that one can triangulate without sighting distant objects, I now know why the military uses GPS so much.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:10 pm**

I would like to address this note to the 19 year old CanadianSteve who started this post.

As you might have already experienced in the mountains, knowledge is everything. There is nothing wrong with GPS, but there is something hugely wrong with not really knowing (thoroughly) how to use a map and a compass. Map and compass forces you to read the land, so learn how to read the map and apply it to the terrain. If you aspire to years of mountain travel, mountaineering, expeditions, and outings in the middle of nowhere, take my word for it, learn how to use map and compass really well and go from there.

You might have already done so, in which case get the best GPS for your money and you'll have done all you can for this part of your outdoor education.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:41 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:51 pm**

MoapaPk wrote:
The Chief wrote:Get in with one of these comp's and you might just learn something, MoapaPk. You'd be surprised at what one can do with a map and compass in ANY environment, in any weather condition and a in any location.

Go back and read the thread Chief. I mapped with an actually sighting compass for real, as part of my job, and have navigated thriough 8 whiteouts by map and compass. After reading your implication that one can triangulate without sighting distant objects, I now know why the military uses GPS so much.

The primary reason for the satellite array is military, not civilian, we just benefit. Let's have The Chief explain how he'd put a Hellfire Missile within 30' of a target with a magnetic compass?

Just because one can still navigate with 15th Century technology doesn't mean you have to or want to.

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GPS: What do you use, and why?