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Hi,

I am looking at -40 sleeping bags for a Denali trip this May as well as for future use in the Himalaya (I sleep a bit cold and my -20 bag has done me well for Sierra stuff and South America, but I know I'd be cold in Alaska or Himalaya with it).

I suppose I have it narrowed down to the Marmot CWM, Western Mountaineering Bison, and Feathered Friends Snowy Owl. They're all mighty expensive and all have same temp ratings and similar down fill weights, so for me it will come down to compression.

Does anyone have any perspective on how these (or other -40 bags) compress relative to one another? If no difference, then I might as well go for the cheaper Marmot Cwm bag. But if the WM or FF offered greater compression or other advantages, I may be tempted to go for them.

Any help you can provide to help me make my choice is greatly appreciated!

Jason

FF and WM are far superior to the off shore made Marmots. I own both, have used both in Alaska, and can say their temp ratings are very conservative. I used a +15 WM (Apache Super Dryloft) on Hunter, the Ruth Gorge, a half dozen winter Rainier trips and countless other winter trips in Canada and the lower 48.

For Denali I used a FF Widgeon, rated to -15 with some overfill. It was -30 at night at 17k and I was warm enough with a single Evazotte sleeping bad. It compresses to the same size as my wife's North Face +20 bag. The Widgeon was originally designed for a Seattle based K2 expedition. They are cut slightly large so one can wear most of their clothes without compressing the insulation.

IMNSHO, a -25 WM or FF bag would be as warm as the Marmot CWM, and compress much better as well as being lighter. Expensive? You bet, but a high quality down bag, properly cared for, will last a very long time. Its an investment. My WM has 60 hard seasons on it, and it is still going strong.


When you order a warm bag from FF, it is custom made. You can have extra lofty fill, extra fill, half zipper, no zipper, choice of fabrics giving you a lot of options. They did screw up my bag in one respect. I wanted a half ziper, they put in a full zipper and there was not enough time to have it fixed. Still a great bag. Also, I wanted regular nylon shell and they would not make the bag for me with that option, they insisted I use Epic which I am glad they did. It is a great fabric for bags. Waterproof and more reatheable than the Gore DryLoft used on my WM bag.

I can't say anything about the other brands but, WM makes a damn solid bag. I have the Puma (-25) with the foot box over filled. I sleep on the cold side, and i've taken it to -20 several times and always been very warm. I agree with ExcitableBoy, Western Mountaineering's ratings are conservative.

I'll be up there around end a April/beginning of May. When are you flying in?

I really like my WM bags.
I haven't had my Alpinelite(+15*F) down to the rated temp, but it is like a furnace in the 20* range. Same with my Puma-extremely warm.
Like someone else mentioned, consider them an investment, and then the price won't sting quite as much.

Just a note about an investment. Back in 1986 I had some extra money and couple of big trips planned so I (luckily) went and purchased the best bags on the market (then). It was very lucky and best decision. Cost me a fortune but all three bags are still with me and the -25 (FF) and -40 (Marmot) rated ones are still in extremely good condition. The -5F rated one, Marmot Goretex bag I used quite a bit over the years and it is still very usable. My advice to you would be, buy the best quality bag today's money can buy, you will not regret it. Just make sure you store your bags in storage bags provided by the manufacturer.

I owned a WM Bison (-40F) for years and loved it but replaced it with a Mountain Hardwear -20 Wraith. I used it on Everest (to the South Col) and on Denali this last year with good results. It is about $300 less than the MH and compresses incredibly well. I would never spend the money for a -40 bag again because with another person (or 3 like on Denali) you just don't get that cold with all the body heat trapped inside the tent.

Hey,
I have a Marmot CWM (Gore DryLoft version) that I'm looking to sell. I only used it last year on Khan Tengri in the Tien Shan. It's the northernmost 7000m peak in the world, and it definitely produced Denali/8000m-esque conditions. I was extremely impressed, both with the warmth and the water resistance of the shell. The loft and compressibility were excellent. I can't speak specifically to the FF or WM, but it's hard not to respect their quality. Sorry if this is an obvious poach of the original topic, but if you're interested, it's been hardly used, stored flat and uncompressed, and you'll have a quality expedition piece that's true to the temperature rating. I think $300 shipped with a sylnylon compression sack sounds fair. Take care, Hari

I have a WM Puma (rated to -32C) and I'm a very cold sleeper. That bag is underrated as I have slept in it to -30C in only base layers. Quality is amazing, and the bag, in long, weighs only 1800g with a compression stuff sack.

Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are reliable brands that make amazing bags. Either is a safe bet.

asmrz wrote: My advice to you would be, buy the best quality bag today's money can buy, you will not regret it. Just make sure you store your bags in storage bags provided by the manufacturer.

Bingo!

As usual, the man of deep wisdom and experience hits the target smack dab in the center with a single shot from a thousand yards.

My choice and recommendation in this case is as others have posted, a bag within the necessary/required temp rating manufactured by no other than Western Mountaineering. You will not regret ever doing so.


I own five and have done so for over 20 years now and will use no other.



Over and Out.

I'd agree much of the above. I've used a couple of FF Snowy Owl's in Antarctica the last decade and they've been good. They're the older model with a heavier Gore shell. They're also made long enough for me (6' 7"). I have one right in front of me, used at the South Pole a week ago, and compressed it is 55cm / 21.5" long and won't go much more. That's a pretty big bulk in a pack that you'll actually be climbing with, so I'd seriously consider Alan's suggestion above about making do with a 'smaller' bag. The Himalaya/Karakoram rarely get that cold, compared to high camps on Denali, Vinson, Logan etc. A -25C bag should see most people through most places, though I've regularly had my bags in -35C to -45C, and you appreciate it at those times.

Another point is that in the last few years manufacturers have been cutting costs under the name of making 'lightweight' gear, but it's not all good. Many current bag shells leak down, either through poor stitching or a superlight shell. You don't want that in a $500 bag. All my bags are stored either fully lofted or lightly compressed in a big linen or mesh bag. Never compress a down bag for any longer than you have to.