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Like TimB, I'm a synthetic fan. I think some of the new "ultralight" down jackets with 15, 10 or even 8 denier fabrics are just too flimsy for their intended usage (and the pricetag). It's my experience that the top synthetic parkas are just as warm as midweight down.

divnamite wrote:

peninsula wrote:I've never heard of wearing a down layer over a hard or soft shell. Shells provide wind and water protection whereas down apparel is generally minimally protective (at least in terms of using down as a middle layer). The warmth of dry, high-quality goose down can't be beat whether in a bivy or under a shell.

Most climbers will wear insulation layer (down or synthetic) as the outer shell during period of inactivity such as deblaying the leader or follower.

Makes sense.

It all comes down to perspective as pointed out by Kevin. I'm using down when in a base camp working a camera/tripod and other periods of relative inactivity. My camping is generally 10.5 to 11 thousand feet in the fall season where there are plenty of snags and granite that can easily damage the relatively fragile outer material making up my down apparel.

peninsula wrote:It all comes down to perspective as pointed out by Kevin. I'm using down when in a base camp working a camera/tripod and other periods of relative inactivity. My camping is generally 10.5 to 11 thousand feet in the fall season where there are plenty of snags and granite that can easily damage the relatively fragile outer material making up my down apparel.

I understand what you are saying. I think Kevin's post is spot on. Get lightweight down jacket, it'll get destroyed quickly. Go with a climbing down jacket/parka, it'll survive almost anything. Also, most of the climbing clothes companies have solid warranty in place for this as well.

How about this set up.

Base layer, soft pile jacket or pullover for high exertion activity+ hard shell for wind and rain/snow protection. Extremely light down (hooded) jacket for around camp. That works for me.

For rock climbing in very cold, winter conditions, one heavier jacket to be shared by two climbers so the belayer can stay warm. For high elevations above 15,000, the story is the same, just thicker materials.

This set up assumes we will be moving all day and only stop to set up camp, get into our bags and cook. Repeat next morning.