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Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:12 pm
by Yeti
I’m not terribly active on here, so I may have missed the birth of this trend in the past few years.

The leashless ice-tool scene, I get. I don’t practice it, but I’ve heard decent arguments for it. When you’re roped and you lose a tool, you generally get to live.

But

I went out East last weekend for the first time in about 5 years, I took some local sport climbers out to Mt Washington for their first dose of Alpine. I referred everyone to IME for their rentals as always… something I may not do again.

The rental BD Ravens all had some ridiculous 2-part leash. It consisted of a wrist strap and an O-ring that slid up and down the axe shaft. There was a rubber ring on the shaft that was intended to keep that O-ring from sliding off the end of the shaft. I believe it was made by Camp, but the name had faded.

For one in our party, the rubber ring *fell off the shaft* during normal use, making the leash nothing more than a useless ugly bracelet. There’s no way it would act as a leash if it needed to be one.

I brought this up at IME when they were returned, and the kid at the counter seemed to agree with me… at first. “Yeah those things suck…. I’d like us to take the leashes off the axes altogether”. He seemed befuddled when I noted their importance, and pointed out that I owed my life to a leash.

And truth be told, I saw a hell of a lot of leashless ice axes on the hill this weekend, in the hands of many people on guided trips. (I think 90% of people on that route are guided).

What happens when you fall? Icy gloves, slippery steel and aluminum, dropping the axe can happen easily. I can personally attest to the violence of a tumble on a steep slope, it caused me to drop my axe, and reeling it back in on the leash was the only way I was able to self arrest (it took me a couple hundred feet to get it done).

Switching from hand to hand can be a bit onerous, but totally worth it in the grand scheme of things. So what happened?

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:53 pm
by Matt Lemke
Having no leash on a mountaineering axe started a while back. I never use one and probably never will. One thing I have considered, and will probably start doing is leashing it to my harness using the same bunji cords I use for my ice climbing tools but I can only do that when I'm travelling on a glacier, which is the only real place I can forsee actually dropping my axe if I fall into a crevasse.

A leash around peoples' wrist is slowly ending...especially for non glacial snow travel. I see it all the time even on glaciers in the WA Cascades.

EDIT:
In a mountaineering course a friend of mine took through Boeing, they were given the option whether they wanted to use a leash or not. I believe there are some other risks involved in using one that depending on lots of variables can justify not having a leash. I just haven't studied them much.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:23 pm
by ExcitableBoy
There are two schools of thought regarding ice axe leashes. Some folks believe if you fall and lose control of your axe, you are better off not being tied to it. The other school of thought believes you must always be able to perform self arrest if necessary.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:00 pm
by Fletch
I could never handle a leash (of any sorts) on my wrists. For ice tools, I don't normally use leashes, especially when travelling with two tools. Occasionally, I will use a small three way bungee to a biner on my belay loop (similar to what Matt is talking about), but those get to be annoying after awhile.

To the OP's point about ice axes, I'm certainly a leash proponent. I won't use a wrist loop though. I prefer to keep my axe in my uphill hand and commiting to one wrist or the other just doesn't work... Usually, I take a piece of 1/2" webbing and tie a loop at the end and clip it to my backpack waist loop or to my harness...

Crazy though... not to carry a leash... I had a friend go into a crevasse and lose his ice axe when he came to... luckily we got him out, but should he have needed a tool down there, it could have gotten dicey...

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:01 pm
by DukeJH
I've gotten away from a leash on my wrist as well and use a bunji cord (inside 1/2" webbing) clipped to my harness. Switching the leash from hand to hand along with the axe can become frustrating. I find the axe very handy to have when "pulling the evil" where the rope cuts into the snow at the top of the crevasse after prussiking my way out.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:02 pm
by divnamite
ExcitableBoy wrote:There are two schools of thought regarding ice axe leashes. Some folks believe if you fall and lose control of your axe, you are better off not being tied to it. The other school of thought believes you must always be able to perform self arrest if necessary.

That's something I can't never understand. What's leash gotta do with self-arrest? If you failed to self-arrest immediately after a fall, the chances of you able to recover a leashed ice tool and self-arrest again is none (discounting pure luck).

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:17 pm
by ExcitableBoy
divnamite wrote:
ExcitableBoy wrote:There are two schools of thought regarding ice axe leashes. Some folks believe if you fall and lose control of your axe, you are better off not being tied to it. The other school of thought believes you must always be able to perform self arrest if necessary.

That's something I can't never understand. What's leash gotta do with self-arrest? If you failed to self-arrest immediately after a fall, the chances of you able to recover a leashed ice tool and self-arrest again is none (discounting pure luck).


There is also the case of arresting and having the axe yanked out of your hand - with a leash you would still be, well, leashed.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:36 pm
by divnamite
ExcitableBoy wrote:There is also the case of arresting and having the axe yanked out of your hand - with a leash you would still be, well, leashed.

Agree with you on this. Whether someone wants to leash their ice axe is a personal choice. If I was to go with leashes on ice axes, I would only do waist leash, using a 3/4" webbing.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:18 pm
by mconnell
ExcitableBoy wrote:
divnamite wrote:
ExcitableBoy wrote:There are two schools of thought regarding ice axe leashes. Some folks believe if you fall and lose control of your axe, you are better off not being tied to it. The other school of thought believes you must always be able to perform self arrest if necessary.

That's something I can't never understand. What's leash gotta do with self-arrest? If you failed to self-arrest immediately after a fall, the chances of you able to recover a leashed ice tool and self-arrest again is none (discounting pure luck).


There is also the case of arresting and having the axe yanked out of your hand - with a leash you would still be, well, leashed.


I've had that happen twice on the same "fall" (actually, a glissade that hit some hidden ice and quickly got out of control). Going from snow to ice pulled the axe out of my hand. If I did not have a leash, it would have turned very ugly with the speed I gained going over the ice. With the leash, I was able to regain the axe and self-arrest enough to slow down before hitting the next patch of ice, losing the axe again, regain it again before finally stopping. As it was, I walked away with a trashed shoulder. Without the leash, I most likely would have cleared the runout and stopped when I hit rock.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:03 pm
by nartreb
Last time I went up the Lion's Head winter route I watched an inexperienced group thrash their way up that ledge at the bottom without taking off their snowshoes. Very amusing, especially when one of them wound up dangling from his ice axe leash. (Both feet slipped, he had no hold in his left hand, and his right hand was on the shaft of his axe, with the head well planted above him. But he couldn't hang on to the shaft, so only the leash prevented a fall. He was swinging and twisting freely for a second or two...)

If your axe or tool isn't designed to be used leashless, keep the leash on your wrist when using your axe in traction position.

Switching wrists only takes a second. If I'm zig-zagging up a steep slope, I need to stop and catch my breath anyway.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:35 pm
by pvnisher
Guides don't like their clients to be leashed because the clients are more likely to injure themselves in a fall than they are to actually hold a fall. If a client drops an ax they will get down just fine, tied into the guide. The guide similarly doesn't use a leash to model for the clients. You'll rarely, if ever, see guides or clients with leashes.

I like to use some accessory cord with bungee to my belay loop. It is just long enough for full arm extension when stretched, but isn't in the way when compressed. I can swap hands easily and won't drop the thing.

I do the same with my leashless ice tools. You can still climb leashless (more or less), and put in/take out screws easily, but if you lose your grip or fall or they pop out of the ice you won't end up in a bad spot.

Re: Leashless alpine axes? When did this happen?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:50 am
by Cloud Ocean
Interesting to read everyone's perspective on this. I feel naked without a leash. I view it as a critical safety mechanism.

I clip my leash to the haul loop on my pack. This makes changing hands easy. It also allows me to plant my ax and take off my pack without too much concern of the pack tobogganing down the hill. I've been asked if I am worried about the 'choking hazard' of having the leash near my neck. I don't see it happening. Clipping the leash to my harness or pack waist belt feels messy and uncomfortable - too easy to tangle or step on.