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I think next trip to the gym, leave off the device at first and set up like you're giving your partner a hip belay See what happens...

I shamefully admit, I am a palm-upper, although I now attempt to change it up with palms down. Not about strength, I'm weak . Learned to belay with a hip belay 30 years ago. Transfered the habit to a sticht-plate, then to a figure 8, to a Lowe Tuber, and so on. I have never dropped or screwed up a belay in 30 years. I have a scar on my back catching a fall with a hip belay. I will still give an occ. hip belay to a second following me.

However, adapt to your environment. When in the gym, do as the gymmies do.

It's all about being focused and keeping your partner(leading) in the safest possible situation. It doesn't matter if you're belaying palm up or palm down, just be in the game. Sometimes you need to have your partner fall a bit more to avoid an ankle breaker. Sometimes a soft fall is needed, it all depends on the situation. The gym???? Gaper magnet.

Anyone who would/wouldn't climb with someone because they belay palm up or palm down needs to chill. I'm sure if you've had bad experiences with a "palm up" belayer, i guess I can see your point. But does that really define who you will climb with? How about basic competency and rescue skills? I'd take that over belay style any day, within reason.

The device takes the shock of the fall, not your hand. As long as it's locked below and at our hip it doesn't matter. I can even tell you how many 20 ft lobs i've caught, both sport and gear. I've never once belayed palm down. Mainly as i have much more control over what i want to do with palm up. I get to know my partners style before, and we trust in each other to catch falls regardless. Some are palm up, some palm down, makes no difference.

JL

Dingus, I switch from Palm up to palm down all the time...... It just depends on what is best at that second.

I like it best when the leader is up and out of sight. Then I just feed out 3 feet of slack, lock off and watch what the rope does.

If the rope goes up real fast, she just clipped a piece. Next- the rope should come down toward you some - eat this slack some - she is climbing up even with the pro, a good time not to have much slack in system. Then the rope starts going out-slowly- she is climbing, just keep the little loop of slack in the system and keep devise locked off. This is a pretty simple thing to do. Using doubles is much more fun.

Guyzo wrote:Dingus, I switch from Palm up to palm down all the time...... It just depends on what is best at that second.

You should always belay palm down. Always.

Dave Dinnell wrote:I shamefully admit, I am a palm-upper, [...] I have never dropped or screwed up a belay in 30 years.

I'd take a belay from Dave all day long over a palm-down belay from some n00b or even experienced partner who doesn't fekking pay attention! (Disclaimer: I'm a palm-downer, though I'm fine with whatever style is most comfortable/effective for the belayer. Just don't drop me, dammit!!)

Dingus Milktoast wrote:

Guyzo wrote:Dingus, I switch from Palm up to palm down all the time...... It just depends on what is best at that second.

I like it best when the leader is up and out of sight. Then I just feed out 3 feet of slack, lock off and watch what the rope does.

If the rope goes up real fast, she just clipped a piece. Next- the rope should come down toward you some - eat this slack some - she is climbing up even with the pro, a good time not to have much slack in system. Then the rope starts going out-slowly- she is climbing, just keep the little loop of slack in the system and keep devise locked off. This is a pretty simple thing to do. Using doubles is much more fun.

Ditto, buddy. Its like fishing, sensing what the line is doing.

Right when the leader is about to clip???

I JERK THE ROPE, SET THE HOOK BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

But that's probably just my twist on it.

Cheers
DMT

LOL DUDE. Crank it down really hard.

Ever pull a leader off, on purpose? I have.

Yeah, I pulled Waugh off of the crux of Left Ski Track at Josh. Problem was his pro pulled and he crushed me. At least I caught my leader!



And I am firmly in the palm down, thumb facing the belay device camp. Anything else does NOT have the power and control to hold a BIG fall.

When I caught Fred in his screamer plus 1/2 ton boulder last fall, it was palm down....

Moni wrote:When I caught Fred in his screamer plus 1/2 ton boulder last fall, it was palm down....

And I'll bet Fred's palms were sweating???

Dave Dinnell wrote:

Moni wrote:When I caught Fred in his screamer plus 1/2 ton boulder last fall, it was palm down....

And I'll bet Fred's palms were sweating???

More like bleeding from rock rash!

ShortTimer wrote:Yeah, I pulled Waugh off of the crux of Left Ski Track at Josh. Problem was his pro pulled and he crushed me. At least I caught my leader!



And I am firmly in the palm down, thumb facing the belay device camp. Anything else does NOT have the power and control to hold a BIG fall.

Thanks the way I've always done it and it's been really handy at times, although it's caused me some grief at climbing gyms. I was at the rock gym at Berkeley and this well known local (he's called the mayor of Indian Rocks or something like that) kept telling me 'no, no, no, you're doing it wrong!' I finally looked at him and asked 'how do you want me to do it?' He seemed really surprised but then showed me the gym approved method, which I copied, and I got my pass.

TheOrglingLlama wrote:Sierras

Sierra- no s. Just my 2 cents on a slow day

Just to add to MVS's rant: got corrected for my belay at the gym by a gym climber and a boulderer for eff's sake last Friday - arghhhh!

squishy wrote:How do you rappel, palm down or up?

I usually belay palm up, rap palm down. In both cases, it seems like a more natural position.

Palm up versus palm down belaying: I learned to belay palm up, but switched to palm down after I had a rope pulled out of my hand while belaying. I didn't drop the climber, by the way, but it scared the heck out of me and I have never used belayed with my palm up since.