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After reading some recent threads and hearing many very recent trail/camp discussions while on my latest BC trips, this "NUMBERS/TICK LIST" game seems to be a prevailing deal.

My Head Doc (for my PTSD) and I shared about this exact same deal a couple of weeks ago.

He is of the opinion (apparently it is a hot topic in the world of psycho therapy these days) that many in our society, sadly revolve around accumulating statistics and numbers, regardless of task. Many base their self-worth on it. Many seem to have no satisfaction with what they have done or accumulated and must have or do more. For some, it takes over their lives and they can not be content unless they do it all.

Seems that this "NUMBER'S" concept has indeed bled into the climbing world.

Many claim it as a "GOAL".


Thoughts....

I agree. Many degrade the outdoor experience to an array of numbers and stats. To make it clear, I am not going to judge, but that's not why I am going outdoors and it should not be the main driving force.

Sometimes I go on a long, streneous dayhike with 20+ miles, sometime just for an hour-long stroll along a stream and I enjoy both equally. Sometime I really want to go fast, sometimes I stope every 5 minutes and just marvel at the surroundings. The outdoors should not be seen as an outdoor gym. If you do, you will miss a lot actually.

Is this such a bad thing? Lists give us goals, a reason to keep trying and being active. Once we get out, the excitement of the surroundings makes us forget about the list, and we take away a warm glow from the experience. The list keeps us coming back.

One of the happiest, most positive people I know seems obsessed by mileage, and how many peaks she can fit in a day (e.g. she tries to get at least 1200 outdoor hiking miles per year). But she doesn't brag to other people; it's a way of checking her status with herself. I know of her obsession only because she is always asking for a GPS log. She has lived through some serious illnesses and come through all positive. She must be doing something right.

To each their own.

The Chief wrote:After reading some recent threads and hearing many very recent trail/camp discussions while on my latest BC trips, this "NUMBERS/TICK LIST" game seems to be a prevailing deal.

My Head Doc (for my PTSD) and I shared about this exact same deal a couple of weeks ago.

Thoughts....

you talk to your shrink about climbing? you taking this shit wayyyyyyy too seriously. you need to get out and climb more instead of sitting in that chair across from the dude that knows nothing about climbing.

"Couldn't care less"

+1

Interesting.... "obsessed" is a word that my Doc pondered on.

What is the difference between "obsessed" and "at all/any cost"?

Point, been sharing/discussing this exact situ with friends that are both Volunteer and active Military/Law Enforcement SAR TECHS. They agree that many that they go assist and or recover, are indeed obsessed to the point of losing any prevailing thought of self preservation. In other words, got to to it or else.

Ironically, many of the people that they (my friends) encounter and assist, openly share an expectation of entitlement that they should be rescued in the process of attaining their "goal" if anything indeed goes wrong. Another issue that has evolved with the "Numbers" game.



****Yes Kevin, I share with him about my client that died last year while under my charge along with the many others that died during my tenure in the Navy while a SAR Crewman and all the other rescue ops that I partook in.

BTW... he is an avid local long time Eastside climber himself and has been so longer than you have been on this planet.

sjarelkwint wrote:And who are you, mister army man, to tell us that's a bad thing?

Please post where I once on this thread noted it was a "bad thing".

Not once.

I just asked for thoughts on the issue.

Besides, I aint no "army man".

Go figure..............

Numbers?
12,610 posts x 2 minutes per post = 420 hours
That’s equal to 35 twelve hour days that you could have been outside.

brianhughes wrote:Numbers?
12,610 posts x 2 minutes per post = 420 hours
That’s equal to 35 twelve hour days that you could have been outside.

Good example of number counting.

PS: I live and work daily, where you term "Outside". It's my life and has been since 2003.

I avg 8-10 hours per day in the world you deem as "Outside".

SP is my break from it.

The Chief wrote:Quit analyzing so much and just go climb......

the dude is a walking contradiction.

jschrock wrote:

The Chief wrote:Please post where I once on this thread noted it was a "bad thing".

The Chief wrote:...many in our society, sadly revolve around accumulating statistics and numbers...

That was my "Doc's" opinion. As I posted, he too is an avid climber and sees this deal evolving out there.

He works with many of local SAR Techs, paramedics and law enforcement folks that are involved in the local SAR ops. That is why I too am working am under his care.

Ironically, this is a subject that some of his other patients that are in the SAR field have questioned him about.

kevin trieu wrote:

The Chief wrote:Quit analyzing so much and just go climb......

the dude is a walking contradiction.

Kevin.. completely that post was on a completely different subject.

Have you ever been on a SAR Op and or had a partner/client die under your charge?

Hey Rick -- here are some numbers for ya :

- years since I broke my neck : 3 (as of today)
- titanium bone screws in my neck : 12
- vertebrae fused together : 4
- months I was in a halo : 3
- halo pin scars in my skull : 4
- bone donor sites in my pelvis : 2
- neurosurgery operations : 2
- number of weeks I was in the hospital : 7
- CT scans of my cervical spine : ~6
- dollars billed to insurance for medical treatment, surgery, rehab, etc : ~700,000
- air miles I was flown to hospital from crash site : ~25
- dollars billed for helicopter ride : ~12000

Don't sweat the little shit

rhyang wrote:Hey Rick -- here are some numbers for ya :

- years since I broke my neck : 3 (as of today)
- titanium bone screws in my neck : 12
- vertebrae fused together : 4
- months I was in a halo : 3
- halo pin scars in my skull : 4
- bone donor sites in my pelvis : 2
- neurosurgery operations : 2
- number of weeks I was in the hospital : 7
- CT scans of my cervical spine : ~6
- dollars billed to insurance for medical treatment, surgery, rehab, etc : ~700,000
- air miles I was flown to hospital from crash site : ~25
- dollars billed for helicopter ride : ~12000

Don't sweat the little shit

Rob... again, your personal experience is very admirable indeed.

But your situ has absolutely nothing to do with the actual premise of this thread.

I ask you as I did Kevin, have you had the negative first hand experience of having to deal with a death or deaths of fellow climber/climbers?

This thread is a result of a conversation I had yesterday with a local friend and lead SAR Tech that was the one that found the remains of this individual last week....

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum ... ob-Schultz


He has been at this SAR and Climbing game for as long as I have. He too sees first hand the negative results that are steadily increasing "outside" all in the quest of the "numbers" as he himself calls it.

I have another female friend who has PTSD from a very nasty experience; enough said, I'm sure many on SP know her.

The numbers game has helped save her. She gleefully ticks off peaks from her own list. Anything that helps her move away from that black hole of experience, and increases her self-confidence, is great.

This is not the same kind of obsession that the Chief mentions; will to live pops in at times and acts as a control.