SummitPost.org

Why did Borut delete all his stuff ??

mconnell wrote:

Andinistaloco wrote:I always get a little suspicious when someone who hasn't even been able to find a profile picture (much less contribute mountains and routes) all of a sudden starts getting sanctimonious and telling folks how to climb.

What does posting a profile pic have to do with climbing? Anybody that feels that their way is the only way should just be ignored, whether they care to upload a photo or not.

I'm surprised that you haven't noticed. On this site, it's more often the folks with no information in their profiles and/or a profile picture of nothing or something other than climbing (ie; Jazzy) who troll and criticize others' climbing, lifestyle, politics, etc. Not to say that this person is one of them - just something I've observed on SP over the years.

Andinistaloco wrote:I'm surprised that you haven't noticed. On this site, it's more often the folks with no information in their profiles and/or a profile picture of nothing or something other than climbing (ie; Jazzy) who troll and criticize others' climbing, lifestyle, politics, etc. Not to say that this person is one of them - just something I've observed on SP over the years.

I noticed that it is common, but not a rule that those that climb don't post info. DMT is a good example. He no longer has any useful info posted and his profile pic is just there to bother attm, but I would respect his opinion more than many on this site (no matter how confused he may be politically! )

My real point with my last post was that nobody, even those that a great climbers, have the right to criticize someone else's enjoyment (assuming that what the "someone else" is doing isn't directly impacting the "great climber's" enjoyment.)

I solo for one reason. My perspective partner's take one look at the objective at hand and quickly run away screaming....

"MADMAN.... MADMAN... MADMAN! He is frkn NUT'S...stay away from him, he is not well!"

i sell my beer in Solo cups and if any Hard men are out there and are doing the Vineman this weekend i will be in the Stand at 5:30am and i will buy you a free one before you race.

Going solo is going closer to the challenge. We do it for the challenge. That does not make going solo "better" and certainly not safer, but going solo can be less stressful. We do it to get away from the stress in life. That's how I see it. Not that my wife or my mom would agree, but that is me.

Borut Kantuser wrote:All this is amateur stuff!

You shouldn't hike alone.
Bad examples.
Grow up!

Are you kidding me? Look, I am not a technical climber, and that's where this thread started. But if you are going to talk about "hiking alone" as amateurish, then I am a freaking amateur.
When I summit a peak here in the Northeast (where there aren't any real peaks until winter hits), sometimes after dark, 10 miles from the road and no tent, after climbing thousands of feet, off-trail, through thick balsam and chest-deep powder, falling into spruce traps (ever been in one of those????No? WHO is the amateur now?)...with ice hanging from my beard, as my breath freezes instantly to my face...

Based on the feeling I get from that, I like "amateur stuff." Have fun with your hiking partner, but only God can keep up with me. Any other partner is likely to become a liability in one way or another. When I tolerate hiking partners, it is because they are people I love, and not for any other reason.

rhyang wrote:The nice thing about hiking alone is that you can set your own pace, make your own choices, camp where you want, get a little lost if you like, take a slightly different route if you desire .. freedom of the hills, as it were

If I gave someone a detailed plan & itinerary of every thing I did by myself I would drive my friends nuts This seems like a great idea in theory if you usually don't go anywhere by yourself though.

Great points.

Dow Williams wrote:Anyone who brags about soloing or wants to discuss it at length......is missing the ultimate reward of the experience.

Absolutely true. Although I do enjoy a little bragging now and then...

I am peak-bagger; an Adirondack 46er, and I have climbed 39 of those peaks in winter. 31, I have climbed winter-solo. When I finish the Winter 46 hopefully next year (which will be my fourth winter season), I plan to return to those 8 peaks which I did not "solo," and re-climb them alone. That includes a couple of hikes that I started and finished alone, but where someone else whom I met during the hike directly aided my routefinding or trailbreaking (and vice versa). The point is this: we all do what we do for multiple reasons. The main reason I solo is not so that I can brag about it, or discuss it at length...it is so that I can be alone, during whatever experience I have. But I would be a liar if I said that I don't enjoy a good boast now and then.

Dow, while I don't really know you, I can see that you probably understand the nature of duality better than most. So you probably know where I'm coming from, you just aren't there anymore. If that seems cryptic, it is.

Puma concolor wrote:I don't know ... I think there is a big difference between climbing solo and hiking solo...Climbing solo is much more edgy if you ask me...

But anyone who chest thumps about any of it is kind of missing the point, IMHO.

Absolutely, to the first point. If I boast about winter-solo hiking, it is the physical challenge of trailbreaking about which I am boastful. Not the incremental increase in danger, or whatever. Soloing difficult technical terrain is a whole different matter.

As to the second point, again, I am not bragging about bragging. I am admitting that I brag. Big difference. Of course, your comments weren't directed only to me, but there it is.

Dow Williams wrote:Anyone who brags about soloing or wants to discuss it at length......is missing the ultimate reward of the experience.

Yup...I guess these Legend's all missed the mark and "ultimate reward", DOW, in their frequent at length public presentations, discussions and books on their many incredible "Solo" experiences!









edit: PHOTO ADDITIONS

Just a few thoughts...

Where does one draw the line between bragging and sharing an experience?

What's the difference if I tell a story about an adventure I've had by myself or with someone else?

Couldn't every trip report on this website be considered bragging to some degree?


"Clyde soloed the route in the summer of '35, another feather in his cap. However, on his ascent he missed out on the long initial ridge that makes this route good. Nowadays, if you want full bragging rights you have to do the whole thing." - Peter Croft on the East Arete of Mount Humphreys, The Good, The Great and the Awesome.

IMHO Not too sure how solo hiking and climbing can compare in experience.

Peter Croft provides interesting reading on the enjoyment and rewards of hiking alone in the dark. I hiked/scrambled Gayley alone starting before sunrise from 3rd Lake, it was rewarding not to see a soul until the Palisade Glacier, it was still just a hike. I was also lucky enough to head up the Cactus to Clouds trail and see only 2 people the entire day. Obviously some exposed 4th class is going to feel different than some hike.

Was a night hike solo climbing? not even close. I have only soloed some ice but the first time you get high enough it becomes a real conifdence builder once you top out. It is also incredibly stupid to climb anything that is not well within your comfort/skill level, which for each person is going to be different. Look at some of the pics posted of famous climbers, what great skill and confidence. A good story about comfort level is the FA of the North Arete of Banner Peak in 1950 it was considered a 4th class route yet the next party to climb rated it III 5.7.

I think anyone who hikes or ice climbs in 4 seasons has experienced the quiet misery of breaking trail in deep snow. I have been waist deep near King Wall in the ADKs and chest deep between lower and upper boyscout lakes (nothing is worse than postholing through snow into deep willow bushes) I doubt any of it compares with the hard earned miles through Devils Club Beckey experienced.

Any time we go outside of personal comfort levels the experience can be rewarding, but also fatal.

James_W wrote:IMHO Not too sure how solo hiking and climbing can compare in experience.

I don't think anyone is trying to compare them directly. But there are certainly similarities between them.

I have never understood where the line is drawn between hiking and climbing. That's a whole 'nother debate.

Edit to say: If I'm going uphill, isn't that climbing?

James_W wrote:IMHO Not too sure how solo hiking and climbing can compare in experience.

On the subject of going solo, I see only technical differences between off-trail hiking and climbing. When going off-trail, there can be a good deal of danger and decision making, as for example; negotiating a Class 3 mountain pass. I do admit, I am not a peak bagger. I don't carry a rope, at least not at this point in my life.

My point: Going solo is about the freedom and independence one can enjoy that otherwise gets muddled with "decision making" when going with one or more partners. Granted, having a partner can have its own rewards... sharing the experience for one. And for those peak-baggers doing technical climbs, I do understand the increased need for having a partner, but I can't speak from personal experience.

Going solo is about the unadulterated freedom of mind, body, and spirit while meeting the challenge before us. It is the essence of what we all seek in these mountain adventures. It is still a wonderful experience when with a partner(s), but a certain amount of tranquility is lost. I suppose it has somewhat to do with individual personalities. I imagine many of us would have a great deal more satisfaction in "sharing" the experience... but that is not me. I like to share my experience with a trip report after I get back. I don't find writing a trip report or for that matter, writing a book, is about bragging... it is about sharing the experience.

Now that I am using a Spot Satellite Messenger, I will be sharing the real-time experience in this age of communication. It is a pretty cool tool for those of you not familiar with it. This 7 oz device allows me to send a "Check In" message to friends and family as often as I want. For my upcoming trip, I will be sending a "Check In" message via email twice daily. They will receive this check-in "I'm Okay" message as well as a way point and a link through google showing my exact location on a map. I get my freedom of going solo with the safety of having my friends and family at the push of a button.