SummitPost.org

<a href=//www.everestnews.com/mallory2005/mallory2005update05102005.htm>Mallory and Irvine The Final Chapter Everest 2005: STAY DOWN and no fixed ropes where we are going</a>

There are two things

- Succesfull ascent of a summit, if you reach the highest point, this condition is met.

- Concluding a climb successfully: To meet this one you have to come down alive again to the foot of the mountain, (Crashing with the airplane on the way home or something does not count, as it has nothing to do with the mountain and the climbing)

It might be that a summit is made, but that does not yet make it successfully concluding a climb: Dying on the way down is just bad mountaineering!

Irvine's axe was found on the ridge about 700 feet below where the 1999 M&I Expedition found the 1924 oxygen bottle, just below the First Step. General consensus is thatthe axe was not in the fall line with Mallory's body, depending on who you listen to, and when you listen to them.

Binary solution set, Irvine was separated from his axe on either the descent or the ascent. If on the descent, Irvine's body needs to be between the fall line below the axe and the 1924 camp 6 site. If on the ascent, Irvine's body is most likely in the same fall line as Mallory's. Could be anywhere, but that's the first place to look.

They dropped an O2 bottle just below the First Step. If they each carried two, the second bottles would have run dry above the Second Step, at today's rates of forward travel. I do not subscribe to Jochen Hemmleb's theory that M&I carried three bottles each. yes, his logic is impeccable, they might well have had that many to use, but the note his conclusion is based on does not prove, as he seems to believe, that they did take three, instead it offers substantive evidence that they took more than one each. "More than one" does not equal "three", and claims to that effect undermine scientific objectivity.

It's hard to give Conrad Anker's account of the Second Step's difficulty much credibility, solely because he changed his story. He said 5.8, no problem at first, then said 5.10, too hard for Mallory later. I prefer to give more weight to Conrad's belayer (Dave Hahn) on his climb since his story has remained constant. Hahn says Anker was up the crack before he could even set the belay.

With Mallory's goggles found neatly put away in his pocket, I prefer to believe they ascended the Second Step successfully and turned around at an indeterminate point above there, and that an accident occurred below the First Step during a night time descent.

With the first O2 bottle discarded below the First Step, the timing for a successful summit is tight. If Odell saw the pair ascending the Second Step at 12:50, they were approximately three hours off pace compared with Anker and Hahn. The summit pyramid has unstable snow conditions which can delay progress, and did, in the case of Hahn and Anker. My gut feeling is that M&I ran out of time and turned around, unsuccessful, somewhere above the Second Step, but given Mallory's fixation with the mountain, I do not rule out a successful summit, even after dark.

The Chinese expedition's confirmation of a second body on the steep part of the ridge between the First and Second Step's support this contention, as this is, generally in the fall line with Mallory's body. However, it raises significant questions as to the body discovered by them near high camp, notably that the position and confirmed presence of a sleeping bag do not match the conditions surrounding the discovery of Mallory's body.

If the Chinese account of the sleeping bag shrouded body do not refer to Mallory, then there was one body too many on the mountain in 1975, the one in the sleeping bag, Mallory, and the one on the ridge.

That's about all we can "know" for now. Given that E News interviewed the Chinese personally and that they have a team in place and ready to search at this time, we may find out more when and if another body (and/or camera) is discovered, if artifacts are found above the Second Step, or if they are found on the summit.

Until then, it's all just conjecture.

<a href=//www.everestnews2004.com/malloryandirvine2004/stories2004/ourtheory.htm><b><i>EverestNews.com's theory of George Mallory and Sandy Irvine's last days on Everest (10/2004)</i></b></a>

Diego, very interesting stuff, thanks for posting. Jeffers, good analysis too.

I agree with juh33, but Hillary and Tenzing do not have to worry about it because he did not make it down.(not that they would)

There is more here covering that time period <a href=http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2011/stories/20030606000106600.htm>http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2011/stories/20030606000106600.htm</a>

Reading on this subject and watching a National Geographic program on it. "Expedition to the edge, CSI on Everest" there appears to be several pieces of evicence found/not found that show that it is possible and plausible that one or both made it to the summit. ie:missing photo, O2 bottle, location and condition of Mallorys body, ice axe location. etc.

The expedition was outfitted with metal detectors and tons of info from interviews and historical logs. Their search for evidence was halted when they assisted 2 separate groups of climbers who had gotten themselves into trouble. They did however find Mallory and noted his location in detail. They stated that they planned to return to search the summit (they were called back while enroute to help the other climbers)

I will be waiting for this return trip with anticipation to see if they are able to find their camera with the metal detectors.

<a href=//www.everestnews.com/mallory2005/mallory2005update10122005.htm><b><i>Everest 2005: Mallory and Irvine The Final Chapter: Q&A Autumn 2005 Part 4</i></b></a>

<a href=//www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=1414 ><b><i>Mallory and Irvine - The ‘Second Step’ Issue: Another perspective on the lessons from 1933 and 1924</i></b></a>

Q: <b>Did Mallory and Irvine reach the summit of Everest?</b>

A: <i>Of course. I met them there and we had a nice chat. But they left after 10 minutes in the other direction.</i>

Of course they did. That's where George left the photo of his wife.
fd

Alright, i have no idea if either of them made it to the summit, however without 100% percent proof i dont see how people can believe they did.

Furthermore if there was 100% proof i dont see how it wouldnt be considered the first ascent. There is a difference between ascending and descending a mountain. Its all about the up and down, if you make it up you ascended.

Just a thought...

Bump.

<a href="http://www.everestnews2004.com/malloryandirvine2004/stories2004/xijing12142004.htm">Credibly conducted interview with Xu Jing</a>

This appears to take the discussion forward. Kind of incredible that this Xu Jing (1960 Chinese Everest summit team) has never been properly inteviewed and translated before now.

Personally, I'm now leaning heavily towards the belief that Mallory either summitted or got very damned close. Xu Jing is quite definite that he saw a body lying face up on the ridge between the first and second steps. This body could not have been Mallory's because he was subsequently found lower down and well below the ridge. It has to be Irvine. Because of the condition of Mallory's body it is almost impossible for him (Mallory) to have fallen from the ridge. The most likely way for him to have climbed to the vicinity of where he (Mallory) was found seems to be a descent of the great couloir and then an attempted traverse back along Norton's route in an attempt to regain their high camp. In other words he was above the third step and in the vicinity of the summit at some time in order to access the couloir. Sorry to bore those who are fed up with the subject but I admit it still enthralls me. Just wondering what others make of this new info....

Dave, in my opinion the conclusions given by everestnews.com in part are based on that interview, wich I already had linked here