emmieuk wrote:I don't it was a question yes probably pathetic to most but that does not mean it warrants that kind of sarcastic response

Don't really think sp is kinda for me ta for those that have helped

Happy climbing people!

To explain what it's all about:
There are as many definitions as there are mountaineers. Many climbers are awfully strongwilled. Plenty have a lot of experience. Then they get upset/angry/critical when somebody posts the "wrong" definition or explanation.

Your question wasn't the least pathetic. It has been threads about this, long threads with lots and lots of arguing. You know, simple questions are often the hardest to answer.

You're giving up way to easy. Wait and see, you might get a definition which suits your way of thinking.

Lolli wrote:
You're giving up way to easy. Wait and see, you might get a definition which suits your way of thinking.

I think maybe she already has.

dskoon wrote:

Lolli wrote:
You're giving up way to easy. Wait and see, you might get a definition which suits your way of thinking.

I think maybe she already has.

I think so too, actually. But when new, one often wants a confirmation, that there's more than she who thinks that way. Not everybody, mind you.

Meaning?

"Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills"

Pick up a copy at the library, or buy your own. Excellent.

It becomes mountaineering when you start discussing it at a pub.

It seems to me that mountaineering is different things to different people....in other words it depends upon each person's ability or comfort level.

A simple example here in California would be Mt. Whitney. There are several ways to climb Whitney and it can be done in summer or winter or in between. For some people climbing it in the summer via the walkup route from Whitney Portal is mountain climbing and a challenge. For others it's only a challenge to climb the face when there's ice on it (I assume this is done but I'm not sure). When I did Whitney I did it via a walk up but from the other side where one has to backpack in. I didn't consider it mountaineering, though, as it was more of a backpacking trip and didn't involve any "climbing."

There's a mountain (I can't remember the name) on the East Coast here in the US that's not too high but I guess it gets real cold and difficult there despite the relatively low altitude. So for some that is mountaineering too.

I hear in the UK, there's very difficult climbing with bad weather also. I think the altitude is not so high there right? Still sounds like mountaineering to me though with technical climbing and bad weather.

Anyway if someone is more skilled and more fit there definition of mountaineering is probably going to be different than someone who is less skilled or fit.

How's that? Did I offend anyone? lol...

Lolli wrote:

emmieuk wrote:I don't it was a question yes probably pathetic to most but that does not mean it warrants that kind of sarcastic response

To explain what it's all about:
There are as many definitions as there are mountaineers. Many climbers are awfully strongwilled. Plenty have a lot of experience. Then they get upset/angry/critical when somebody posts the "wrong" definition or explanation.

There are histories on SP, emmieuk. Sometimes a new person will walk into them without knowing what issues come up over and over. Welcome.

I'd say there are "inclusive" definitions and "exclusive" definitions. Some people feel a need to say that what they do is not the same as what others do. Hence MoapaPk and I making smart-aleck comments about bragging being the difference.

Others are more inclusive -- if you're doing something on a mountain, it's mountaineering. But there's a big difference between what those things are.

So a non-sarcastic response is really: why do you want a definition?

Plain and simply when my friends who have potential and show some enthusiasm on my new way of life I want to be able to help them understand but I cannot do that until I know what I am talking about

emmieuk wrote:Plain and simply when my friends who have potential and show some enthusiasm on my new way of life I want to be able to help them understand but I cannot do that until I know what I am talking about

I'd use the question for self-reflection then. Do you like being outdoors? Like the views? Like the physical challenge? Like an activity where you can continually develop new skills? Like the camaraderie among climbers? and so on.

Use those as the selling points to friends. FWIW.

The definition is vague. When you feel great enthusiasm for getting to the summits, and you feel a rush just remembering past events on the mountain, you will convince yourself that you are a mountaineer. The events might include a snow climb, or the awesome beauty of clouds below, or successful navigation of a whiteout, or thoughtful avoidance of tragedy on the mountain, or sunrise from the summit... or the events may be more subtle.

There will always be people who brag too much about an amazing expedition, who include subtle jabs at your accomplishments; don't hang with such people, unless you can just laugh at their self-inflation, or you find their personalities balance out more to the good.

As I've tried to hint, you can do a lot in the UK that is undeniably mountaineering. Go to Skye or wait for the first heavy snow on the higher peaks (and get instruction first!). It will be a whole new world.

knoback wrote: How do you know that you are not a hiker? Say you set out for a summit one afternoon, but along the way you find a rare and beautiful flower. You stop to admire it and take some pictures, and by the time you're done the clouds have rolled in and you have to head back. If you can say, without qualification, that you had a satisfying outing, then you are a hiker.

Around here, we call this a hike:

I got to the top of this chute, and shouted down that there was an easy class 2 route around the back; yet nearly everyone chose to repeat my route. On the way, one person found a marvelous flower that grows only in our area, and as much time was spent in photographing that flower, as in climbing the chute. Both events added a lot to the day.

We are hikers, we love the outdoors.

And there emmieuk, you have a good illustration of how these threads go awry.

mattski wrote:how do u add photos

To what? If you add them here (to this thread), the photos must have a home on the internet somewhere -- you must be able to see them in a browser, from a location that has an http:// start to the address. You can 1) upload the photos to SP, say as profile pictures; 2) upload them to a photo-sharing site, such as smugmug. View the photo in the browser, click in the URL window at top, copy to the buffer (say ctrl-C), and paste that address in the SP message window. Then highlight that address with your cursor, and hit the Img button.

"Reply" to my message above, to see how I did it. You don't need to finish the reply; just hit the "back" button on the browser when you are done.

Mattski -- it's often a lot better if you put in a link to the "medium" sized image, so it doesn't overwhelm the size of the forum posts. You can always link to the larger image (make it "clickable" as Rob Yang showed me, and I will show you if you so desire).

By the way, around here we call that a morning run. Ha ha!

Actually, per my example of "hiking" above ... we might also call that mountaineering. But we arrange "hikes" in our mountaineering club, for anything that doesn't involve specific rock or snow gear, and is just a day trip. We might carry ropes and harnesses for hikes, and are paranoid about safety; but we are most interested that people have a good time in the outdoors. This particular hike involved one unavoidable 4th class wall; I simply state what each trip involves, and try to err on the side of conservatism.

If I ever get over to Scotland in winter, and have the pleasure of climbing a peak, I will certainly enjoy the challenge, and remember it fondly.

What about mountaineering being the use of technical skills (including route finding, rockclimbing, steep snow, and ice climbing) to attain some type of mountain summit?