Interesting that you don't use crampons in icy conditions Ray?

Bryan, I don't use crampons because I learnt that way, and I found I had innate dexterity (also applies to the feet) and I've been gifted with precision - so I found a natural line of engineering for work. But I don't do long technical sections on ice, nor been to big all technical peaks. Though I have got myself into some bad situations above a drop, were one slip may have been irrecoverable. But I did train and prepare, learning to use the axe in every conceivable orientation, literally sliding down in safe places to do axe breaking automatically - head first, on my back, spinning. N. Wales and the Glyders was my training ground. Still, for now, I don't need to do that kind of thing.

Yeah, cave diving. Just such an awesome experience. But just altogher no way out. I would never do it. I can rely only on my skill and not just equipment.

Ray, I need crampons on almost any up/down icy/ frozen snowy surface when in the mountains.

As opposed to your dexterity I consider my walking style to resemble that of an out of control elephant! And no one who has ever walked with me has ever challenged that statement.

So I find my 12 point Grivels, along with my lovely new 90cm Black Diamond walkers Ice axe, (thank you so much to the USA for making and supplying me with this), essential gear for my winter mountain walks. And I don't think they give me a false sense of security either.

Bryan, as a teenager, truth is that I was too poor to afford crampons because I spent all my money on gear. Er, no that ain't right. Could it have been something to do with trips to Bavaria to see all those lovely sights - ahem - Bavarian... begins with D, and ends with L.

Well if we bump into each other in N. Wales, you'll look like a fleet footed gazelle if I try to climb Crib Goch knife edge without crampons.

Fear is relative to the person undertaking the activity. I'm prepared for the task I plan to undertake so I'm not frightened by it. I am exhilirated by the prospect of any trip to the mountains, and fear is furthest thing from my mind. I trust myself there because I know what I need to know to be safe and recognize my limitations. For the unprepared, mountaineering is wreckless endeavor and the fear is the sign of a healthy mind telling you to get the hell out of this dangerous situation. If climbing is the sign of an unhealthy mind, then lock me up and throw away the key. And everybody on this site should join me. (As a side note it should be added to the postal service employment application: "Do you engage in climbing? Do you own and automatic assault rifle? If you answered yes to either of the the previous two questions, skip to the bottom on the last page, throw your application in the trash basket to your left and exit quietly through the door marked "showers") Perhaps your professor/class should stick to the analysis of blind persons who fly down mountains in a wing suit. Now thats un-healthy!

Live to the fullest, but that doesn't mean die to the fullest...I want to live two lifetimes worth of adventure in a matter of a few years, and I'm trying my best. Only through perseverance can we acheive anything, but only through clear judgment and thought can we know and accept a necessary retreat.

-Mark

I usually hike solo. It's not that I don't like other people - it's just that I sometimes need the time away from others. Some people need solitude.

With respect to your question: I think that some people need the danger to feel alive. I don't think that's me, but the next time I am alone and considering a move where I could be hurt, I hope I remember to think about this. There have been a few occasions where I have made the decision to go ahead with something a little risky and succeeded - and right now I can't recall what I felt in the decision or result.

I don't think that people who seek danger have any sort of mental defect, but they are driven innately to seek out and perform risky activities. It seems to me that a lot of the people who pioneer the more risky recreational activities eventually end up getting killed pursuing the sports they pioneer. And that's sad and unfortunate. But, this may have been what they were supposed to do with their lives - are risk-seeking people ever going to be happy watching TV on their couches? (Not likely.)

Outside wrote:Fear is relative to the person undertaking the activity. I'm prepared for the task I plan to undertake so I'm not frightened by it.

THIS.

I don't "fear" anything when I go out, I just have a healthy respect for where I'm going. Bravado and machismo will catch up to you eventually.

The Chief wrote:

Who is this guy? He looks gay. Is he really a climber?

So why is no one talking about their childhood trauma that got them into climbing?

DMT: That's beautiful and amazing. I will need to try that sometime when I am older and know my boundaries a little better. I have never solo climbed or even hiked, but I believe there is a time and place for almost everything.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:So why is no one talking about their childhood trauma that got them into climbing?

What's your story?

-Mark

Interesting topic. I read the question about being fearful when death is just around the corner or over the shoulder, and my first reaction was that I so often climb in those situations that I usually have to remind myself to be careful, or I'm worried I'll get too careless. I actually have to say to myself, "okay, careful now, remember where you are" a lot of the time, these days. Good questions....

As a technical diver (cave, overhead, penetration, etc..) we follow a mantra;

Complacency Kills

I carry this with me in to the hills as well. Along with a healthy dose of logic.

Every time I'm up high I still realize new ways to draw similarities between diving and mountaineering. Reliance on a partner, isolation, intense planning, confronting rapid change in weather etc...

YMMV.

grammys11,

I appreciate your sentiments. However, climbing is far more radical and more dangerous and more difficult than just about anything out there, including cave diving. Don't kid yourself. I've got a bumper sticker on my van, "Trad is Rad, Always Was, Always Will Be."

There's nothing like climbing.

grammys11 wrote:Sierra Ledge Rat... you look like a bad ass, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but lets not assume cave diving is free of, or is a "minimal" risk activity. Cave diving (and all overhead obstruction diving) is a very serious activity that requires extensive training, composure, skill, and experience. You look like you have it but lets make it clear to all the kiddos out there, that cave diving is the real deal and should not be looked at as a successful way to mitgate risk in one's outdoor activities. Of all diving related accidents, the vast majority are cave divers... in my humble opinion, this type of statistic would be difficult to reproduce in the mountaineering/climbing community.

Everyone has a different threshold for what they consider "risky" or "fearful" behavior. I don't think it has anything to do with childhood trauma. I can't remember anything in my past that would explain why, as a kid, I hung with a group who would have contests to see who could climb to the highest part of the tree, climb electrical towers or bridge abutments, ride our bikes off jumps, skate on the Connecticut river on sketchy ice, jump from highest part of the roof, etc. Then I got into motorcyle racing, skydiving, and having sex with married women. We may have gotten banged up a bit, but always thought we were prepared for the risk. The interesting thing about always pushing the envelope is that once you complete the task, and the butterflies go away, you then need to prepare for the next level. Once you stop, you may as well be dead. There is always something new to learn and a new challenge waiting. I'd like to see more research on the trauma theory. Maybe we were all dropped on our head as babies or thrown up in the air, really high, and just don't remember.