I actually have copies of Aarons old history of SP articles on my old laptop. I read them all and was quite impressed. Regarding the forum stuff, I can say I am glad I joined in January 2010, and didn't become active until January of 2011. I am actually happy all that nonsense is gone The forums however are not dead. Many great articles, both informational and about climbing, are still posted daily and people ask good questions all the time. This is what the forums are meant for. Believe me, the way it is now is much better, even though I wasn't here during all that nonsense. Like you said, this site is about the content, not the forums. We should all be happy.
Thanks for posting this Bob, although you may be surprised how little people probably care about all that haha
While things have been peaceful these days, Bob is absolutely right. I used to get many laughs from the forums. I had to pick my threads carefully of course because some were land mines full of all sorts of mayhem. ;-) Also it was a time period of great trolls that have never been replicated since. It was fun to watch the frontpage get taken over as well as other internet crazies swoop in to stir up the crowds. This was back when people used to eat pop corn while using the internet.
Josh I disagree...although I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. This entire qualm should never have happened, and I'm glad it's gone. The site is better now.
Interesting article Bob. I drifted away from SP at about the time these events took place, but I can remember them quite well (my drifting was nothing to do with events in the forums though).
Now that I'm back it seems that SP is quieter than it once was and not just in the forums. There seems to be less content creation and less interaction with that content... I wonder if that's the case, or am I just imagining it?
... down memory lane there Bob. Although I am very, very rarely on SP much anymore, it was nice to relive some of that. The original PnP debacle isn't what drove me away entirely, but it played its part. Interestingly, it was one person in particular who bothered me, but not any of the three referenced.
It is strange to think that something which seemed so infuriating at the time can seem so insignificant now. I don't know what any of this means, I guess.
What it means is that lots of people, including me, should have taken a deep breath and laughed, especially since so many were taking things so personally when they didn't even use their real names.
I'm curious to know who it was that bothered you. We could also have a different idea of the free. Feel free to PM me. I promise not to publish what you say.
Bob I have the feeling this whole article is `The Bib Bob Sihler Show`. Aaron wrote pieces which were giving no opinion and just gave facts. This feels like you and only you saved SP?
Than you should have gone for another title, by setting the current title you give the impression that this is a continuation of the ones written by Aaron while in no way they are somehow linked ...
Well, there is an explanation of all that, and the purpose of this one as well as the next one I am working on. You are entitled to your own opinion and expression, though.
Not that I posted in PnP...I just lurked occasionally. But back then SP had a lot more energy then it does now. Even the regular forums had a lot more activity and made for some awesome reading on a Friday night...with a few beers in hand. Correct me if I'm wrong Bob, but when the whole PnP thing went down I remember you making a post - and I'm paraphrasing here - that SP would continue to be an awesome site for beta, but that it would now become stale. I hate to say that you were a prophet, but you were. Stale may not be the most accurate adjective, but not too far off the mark. There sure are a lot of former (or inactive) members that are gone that I sure do miss...
I agree. I think that Summitpost's elan has long since dissipated. The old characters, the camaraderie and even drama that defined the site early on made it a lot more vital. The meet ups (not that I ever went), the inside jokes, the BS and even the flame wars made seemed to all combine to make the site a community rather than just a site. Now it is a bland cracker with lots of great beta. I'm not on here much anymore for a few reasons but the loss of the personal aspect is certainly one of them.
Thanks for the entertaining history Bob, but I think there was more going on.
In the last year, the world seemed to realize that the internet can be toxic for women with GamerGate and other controversies. I learned about that here in, I guess 2011 or so. I was amazed at the viciousness of the trolling against a female climber on this site, and when the Elves asked me to join them I did for that reason.
I understand where Bob is coming from, and his story here is well told and interesting. But the real sadism apparent in that trolling that went on is not shown. It all seems to be just some good old fun, and what were we so excited about anyway? I saw Toxo write things about people that mean I could never share a space with her.
All of us, me, Bob, the other elves, moderated the hell out of this place, and made it "no fun" for certain kinds of fun.
Lots of people seem to like the idea that "on the Internet" you can be one kind of person and another in "real life." Well I think the Internet is real life. Do you expect to get on the phone and become a "different kind of person?" If this means I represent a rear-guard kind of actor who can't get with the program and possibly helped kill all the good old fun in the old days, so be it :).
Gangolf Haub - Jan 20, 2015 8:53 am - Hasn't voted
PNP Lite ...
... sure was a bad idea. Not sure who came up with it. Bob?
By the time we deleted (wrong: when I hid) PNP dark we had become so fed up with what was going on between the lite and dark side with us elves in between that basically every elf agreed to get rid of it. We knew we were brewing up a storm but I guess quite a number of our fuses had been blown before.
However, I think SP would have gone the same way regardless of what happened to PnP. It might have accelerated developments but I don't think so. Attention has been drawn towards other sites which developed more quickly. Maybe the concept of "owning" stuff on the internet is just not up to date anymore.
As for the forums, I guess we all agree that they were intended to support the site but during the heyday of SPv1 and SPv2 they became the main reason for many of us to visit SP. Those times are gone. But maybe there are more important things to do? As we suspected way back then already?
Matt Lemke - Jan 13, 2015 2:33 am - Voted 10/10
A good read...I actually have copies of Aarons old history of SP articles on my old laptop. I read them all and was quite impressed. Regarding the forum stuff, I can say I am glad I joined in January 2010, and didn't become active until January of 2011. I am actually happy all that nonsense is gone The forums however are not dead. Many great articles, both informational and about climbing, are still posted daily and people ask good questions all the time. This is what the forums are meant for. Believe me, the way it is now is much better, even though I wasn't here during all that nonsense. Like you said, this site is about the content, not the forums. We should all be happy.
Thanks for posting this Bob, although you may be surprised how little people probably care about all that haha
Josh Lewis - Jan 13, 2015 4:43 am - Hasn't voted
Re: A good read...While things have been peaceful these days, Bob is absolutely right. I used to get many laughs from the forums. I had to pick my threads carefully of course because some were land mines full of all sorts of mayhem. ;-) Also it was a time period of great trolls that have never been replicated since. It was fun to watch the frontpage get taken over as well as other internet crazies swoop in to stir up the crowds. This was back when people used to eat pop corn while using the internet.
Matt Lemke - Jan 13, 2015 7:29 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: A good read...Josh I disagree...although I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. This entire qualm should never have happened, and I'm glad it's gone. The site is better now.
Josh Lewis - Jan 14, 2015 11:39 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: A good read...Now how am I supposed to have fun now that everything is calm? That's like hiking on a blue bird day, friendly and boring. ;-)
Nanuls - Jan 13, 2015 1:23 pm - Voted 10/10
InterestingInteresting article Bob. I drifted away from SP at about the time these events took place, but I can remember them quite well (my drifting was nothing to do with events in the forums though).
Now that I'm back it seems that SP is quieter than it once was and not just in the forums. There seems to be less content creation and less interaction with that content... I wonder if that's the case, or am I just imagining it?
Bob Sihler - Jan 13, 2015 2:45 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: InterestingYou're not imagining it, and that topic is actually the subject of Volume V.
BeDrinkable - Jan 13, 2015 5:28 pm - Voted 10/10
Nice stroll ...... down memory lane there Bob. Although I am very, very rarely on SP much anymore, it was nice to relive some of that. The original PnP debacle isn't what drove me away entirely, but it played its part. Interestingly, it was one person in particular who bothered me, but not any of the three referenced.
It is strange to think that something which seemed so infuriating at the time can seem so insignificant now. I don't know what any of this means, I guess.
Bob Sihler - Jan 14, 2015 11:23 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Nice stroll ...What it means is that lots of people, including me, should have taken a deep breath and laughed, especially since so many were taking things so personally when they didn't even use their real names.
I'm curious to know who it was that bothered you. We could also have a different idea of the free. Feel free to PM me. I promise not to publish what you say.
Deltaoperator17 - Jan 14, 2015 9:43 pm - Voted 10/10
Humor to DifuseThat's why I wrote this.... http://www.summitpost.org/a-petition-to-outlaw-summitporn/539081
Stefan - Jan 15, 2015 3:39 am - Voted 1/10
Bob serious?Bob I have the feeling this whole article is `The Bib Bob Sihler Show`. Aaron wrote pieces which were giving no opinion and just gave facts. This feels like you and only you saved SP?
Bob Sihler - Jan 15, 2015 6:15 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Bob serious?Then you have vastly misunderstood this whole thing. Much of this is about my own mistakes and failures.
Stefan - Jan 15, 2015 8:06 am - Voted 1/10
Re: Bob serious?Than you should have gone for another title, by setting the current title you give the impression that this is a continuation of the ones written by Aaron while in no way they are somehow linked ...
Bob Sihler - Jan 15, 2015 8:31 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Bob serious?Well, there is an explanation of all that, and the purpose of this one as well as the next one I am working on. You are entitled to your own opinion and expression, though.
MarkDidier - Jan 15, 2015 9:21 pm - Voted 10/10
I miss those days!Not that I posted in PnP...I just lurked occasionally. But back then SP had a lot more energy then it does now. Even the regular forums had a lot more activity and made for some awesome reading on a Friday night...with a few beers in hand. Correct me if I'm wrong Bob, but when the whole PnP thing went down I remember you making a post - and I'm paraphrasing here - that SP would continue to be an awesome site for beta, but that it would now become stale. I hate to say that you were a prophet, but you were. Stale may not be the most accurate adjective, but not too far off the mark. There sure are a lot of former (or inactive) members that are gone that I sure do miss...
Bob Sihler - Jan 15, 2015 9:35 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: I miss those days!I think you're correct, Mark. That wasn't the only thing that did it, but it was probably the catalyst.
I don't claim to have had the proper solution for all the problems back then, but the demise of PnP definitely set some things in motion.
Bubba Suess - Jan 16, 2015 1:20 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I miss those days!I agree. I think that Summitpost's elan has long since dissipated. The old characters, the camaraderie and even drama that defined the site early on made it a lot more vital. The meet ups (not that I ever went), the inside jokes, the BS and even the flame wars made seemed to all combine to make the site a community rather than just a site. Now it is a bland cracker with lots of great beta. I'm not on here much anymore for a few reasons but the loss of the personal aspect is certainly one of them.
Bubba Suess - Jan 16, 2015 1:21 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I miss those days!Your write up was good too, by the way.
mvs - Jan 20, 2015 3:17 am - Hasn't voted
A precursor to current eventsThanks for the entertaining history Bob, but I think there was more going on.
In the last year, the world seemed to realize that the internet can be toxic for women with GamerGate and other controversies. I learned about that here in, I guess 2011 or so. I was amazed at the viciousness of the trolling against a female climber on this site, and when the Elves asked me to join them I did for that reason.
I understand where Bob is coming from, and his story here is well told and interesting. But the real sadism apparent in that trolling that went on is not shown. It all seems to be just some good old fun, and what were we so excited about anyway? I saw Toxo write things about people that mean I could never share a space with her.
All of us, me, Bob, the other elves, moderated the hell out of this place, and made it "no fun" for certain kinds of fun.
Lots of people seem to like the idea that "on the Internet" you can be one kind of person and another in "real life." Well I think the Internet is real life. Do you expect to get on the phone and become a "different kind of person?" If this means I represent a rear-guard kind of actor who can't get with the program and possibly helped kill all the good old fun in the old days, so be it :).
Gangolf Haub - Jan 20, 2015 8:53 am - Hasn't voted
PNP Lite ...... sure was a bad idea. Not sure who came up with it. Bob?
By the time we deleted (wrong: when I hid) PNP dark we had become so fed up with what was going on between the lite and dark side with us elves in between that basically every elf agreed to get rid of it. We knew we were brewing up a storm but I guess quite a number of our fuses had been blown before.
However, I think SP would have gone the same way regardless of what happened to PnP. It might have accelerated developments but I don't think so. Attention has been drawn towards other sites which developed more quickly. Maybe the concept of "owning" stuff on the internet is just not up to date anymore.
As for the forums, I guess we all agree that they were intended to support the site but during the heyday of SPv1 and SPv2 they became the main reason for many of us to visit SP. Those times are gone. But maybe there are more important things to do? As we suspected way back then already?
Bob Sihler - Jan 20, 2015 9:13 am - Hasn't voted
Re: PNP Lite ...There definitely are more important things to do.
But being at work is much duller these days. :-)