SummitPost.org

Good morning SP, I thought I would start a discussion here after coming across a sketchy piece of "beta" in one of my climbing guides.

If you are in the PAC NW, you are most likely familiar with Fred Beckey and his "Cascade Alpine Guide" series of books. Although there are still some significant errors (even in the 3rd Ed.), these are generally great guides, and they have been one of my driving inspirations in getting into mountaineering. Beckey generally gives cautious and sound advice for how to deal with approach problems and such. I love these books, but I just came across something I thought was a rather bad piece of advice.

"Some parties drop their packs on the traverse of Sentinel's W slope, then make the climb before continuing."

I think this is a terrible idea. Especially in high alpine areas like the one in question, weather can change instantly and dramatically, leaving you possibly hours away from your source of shelter. Not only that, but if you become seriously injured away from your pack, what will you do? If you fall down an opposing aspect slope away from your pack, what then? If you get off-route and cliffed out trying to get back to your pack, what then? Personally, I will never leave my pack out of my line of sight, and even then there are places where I absolutely refuse to take it off. My logic goes like this; if I'm gonna risk falling, I'm probably going to need the things inside my pack, so it's coming with me no matter what.

What do you think of 'dropping your pack' to save weight on a route? The poll allows re-voting if you change your mind
For those who are OK with this practice, what factors contribute to your decision to leave your pack? And why do you do it? Granted, Beckey was talking about parties who are mostly on a weeklong traverse; would this affect your likelihood of leaving it behind? What about technical (protected) vs. non-technical climbing? I'm going to assume that the main reason would be to avoid carrying extra weight if you are going to be retracing your steps, but I just can't see it from any angle where this would outweigh the risks involved in the practice. About the only acceptable way in my opinion would be with a very good GPS unit, marking the packs location and the exact route you need to take to get back to them.

If I have gear which is unnecessary, I will consider leaving my pack behind.

My first aid kit, for example, clips into my harness, if necessary. Of course, I would evaluate every piece of gear and compare their necessity against my evaluation of the terrain and challenges ahead.

Just like everything else in mountaineering, all you can do is to make an educated guess on which risks to minimize - and which risks to boost. And there are no patent answers, each situation is different.

That's a good idea, Jukka; taking smaller pieces of gear and not the whole shabang might provide a good compromise. I'm trying to learn here, as I am rather new to the mountains, so I appreciate your input. You seem to have a good handle on your gear and what you need, but I don't know that I agree with "boosting" any sort of risk... boosting the perception of risk is fine and dandy with me, but I would like to minimize all real risks as much as I can.

And I don't think I mentioned this before, but this post isn't to criticize, it is for me to learn. I would like to know how other people think about and deal with these practices, how that has helped or hurt them, and how I can learn from it before I make my own novel mistakes.

I don't know about the specific peaks you mention, but there are lots of times when I'll drop my pack.
Don't just consider the risk of falling without having any survival gear, consider reducing the risk of falling in the first place. If I'm doing a technical climb, carrying extra weight just increases the odds of losing my balance and falling. It also slows me down and increases the time spent on the route, increasing my exposure to changes in weather.

If I've got a week's worth of camping gear in my pack, that pack tends to stay in camp unless I'm going from one camp to the next. I keep essentials in my pockets, and when I drop my pack I usually bring along an extra jacket with a bit of food, water, hat and gloves stuffed in the pockets. Sometimes I carry a "summit pack" (one of those drawstring bags you get at conventions - weighs nothing) so I can carry a few small items.

PS, bring *all* your food with you or use a bear can. Here's why:

(click to enlarge)

Packs are frequently dropped at the base of Pig Hill on Denali.

I always keep the stuff in my pack in individual stuff sacks, and I usually have a garbage bag with me... so if I want to reduce weight which happens to be totally unnecessary, I'll dig a little cache hole and stash a stuff sack or three. But the bare essentials stay in the pack, and the pack always stays with me.

Ben B. wrote:I always keep the stuff in my pack in individual stuff sacks, and I usually have a garbage bag with me... so if I want to reduce weight which happens to be totally unnecessary, I'll dig a little cache hole and stash a stuff sack or three. But the bare essentials stay in the pack, and the pack always stays with me.

I pretty much do the same thing, except the cache hole idea, which I like as long as you're not in sensitive alpine soil or unable to dig due to cold. I guess I have never really gone out with a pack that weighs as much as some might, so maybe I just don't understand how much a full weeks worth of stuff can weigh you down. I always try to keep my weight down because of my habit of taking my pack wherever I go.

I agree w/ nartreb also; I like the little summit pack idea, but for me keeping essentials (or anything) in my pockets gets extremely annoying quickly; i hate angles and bulges pushing against my legs while I'm trying to walk. I might bring a smaller sack for the next time I have a longer approach, see if I can get over my separation anxiety for the pack.

When I say dig a hole, I just mean in snow so my shit doesn't slide away.

Well, I am no Beckey, but I would read "drop your pack" metaphorically. Not to cleanse yourself of all possessions for the final ascent, but to cache everything you're carrying but don't really need for the climb, especially if you're on a multi-day outing. Leave the tent, stove, sleeping pad, deck of cards, and camp slippers, but take the jacket and headlamp.

Kind of like the question someone else asked about "bring a rope" in a route description. Meaning you may need a rope and the associated knowledge and extra gear (harnesses, slings, etc), not literally that you should bring just a rope as a talisman.

Practicing how to find your way back to your shizz without a GPS is good practice.

Generally speaking, If I'm going to start a peak or a hike carrying a pack, I'm going to finish with that pack and I'm not going to drop it. It's all about the sense of accomplishment thing. That being said, I often times get sidetracked during hikes and will leave the pack in a pile of leaves or snow well off the trail so as to explore other areas not a part of the original itinery.

Sentinel is 15 miles from the nearest road. It's usually done on the Ptarmigan traverse which is about 50 to 70 miles long traverse from Cascade pass to Stehiken, which normally climbs several peaks along side the traverse. The pack Becky is talking about dropping is at least 50 pounds with a lot of extra gear, fuel, and 6 to 10 days food. Perfectly normal to ditch the 50 pounder and climb the peak with a minimum raingear, maybe a puffy and an emergency bivy sack. Less than 10 lbs max.

You don't normally climb technical rock like this with a 50 pound pack unless there's some kind of mandatory carryover and even then you would get the weight down to at least 30 lbs max. If anything happens you are uphill from your pack. You could crawl back to it if necessary. You can clip the minimum gear to your harness using gear straps or you can get a super small super light pack like the REI flash which will easily pack inside your large pack.

Regarding relying on GPS, what if the battery goes out or the thing crashes? You better be doing normal orienting anyway just in case.

Of course you leave the pack. Do you need a sleeping bag? Uh no. If its technical rock route, Sentinel isn't, you will have a partner. All of this is dependent on weather of course, but on a little jaunt like Sentinel, why would you carry a pack? Its all of 1000 feet of class 2/3 a little snow. Maybe a summit bag, for a puffy/wind shell, water, camera, and some food along with 1st aid kit. Total summit "pack" bag should weight around 1lb to a quarter pound depending on what you make it out of.

Are you going to carry your pack with all your camping gear up Spider? Uh, no. Dome? Heck no, it is actually a bit of class 4 at the top. What about Spire? Of course not. Do you carry your pack to the top of Ruth? Of course not. You leave it at the pass and stroll to the top with some food water and a little bit of clothes and a camera.

Do you carry your monster packs up Ranier? No. You leave them in base camp with a note to any bastard thieves you will knock their balls up into their throats if they pilfer. You may carry a summit bag. Do you really like suffering? Must be.

Now learning WHERE to drop your pack is more of trial and error. DAMN MARMOTS AND PICAS! Bury it in snow, otherwise be prepared for holes chewed by furry rodents.

Oh yea, don't buy super expensive gear. Its not better generally anyways, buts its PR is better. It will get beat up and you had better expect some of it to get accosted by the local furry critters. IE you better not be a shiny car city slicker and expect such things in the mountains either. Climbed with a couple like that and my mind boggles everytime I reminisce.

We drop our packs all the time. Long approach or traverse at many mountains such as Wastral describes makes perfect sense to me. Dump the pack if not needed, grab the minimum gear, a snack and get up the summit.

I'm with Nickmeck...in fact I've been with him when we dump the pack... depends on mountain, needs, whatever. We've done it many times.