Maidy wrote:*(sigh)* I've been trying to just stay clear but this keeps getting revived.
All this squawking about the quality of the new routes at Echo is ludicrous. EVERY route at Echo cliffs required cleaning and the statement that clean beautiful lines existed there all on their own without lots of cleaning is a lie. Lots of people enjoy Ben's routes. They are not total garbage and they are not all squeeze-jobs. I'm sorry if the 5.12 climbers think they are boring. I can certainly point you to some choss and squeeze-jobs in your preferred rating if you like.
Here-QUOTE John Long if you don't believe me:
"For starters, Echo was a totally manufactured climbing area to begin with, especially the main area. Without massive pry barring and "cleaning," through which many handy holds appeared, plus enough heavy construction grade glue to hold the USS Arizona together, the is no Echo Cliffs climbing."
The park service made their call. It was the right call. Ben willingly erased a few routes on a specific wall and this will all be ancient history before you know it. Erik and I put up ONE route and had no plans to do another BTW. My conscience is clear. Absolutely no trees were cut down (that was a total lie). None of the endangered succulents were cleaned of our particular line. Just loose rock. I have never "sought fame"- only a fun route. Pam, Ben and I are now friends and there's no hard feelings over a climb that no longer exists.
Throughout this whole debacle I respect Louie Anderson (original developer of the area) more and more. All of his responses have been nuetral and constructive in spite of whatever his personal feelings may be. He acted as a liaison with the park service and a friendly compromise was agreed on and has been nothing but a positive influence. He acted to fix things rather than just flapping his gums. I sincerely wish that everyone else who has decided to involve themselves in this would take his lead.
Guy- I like you and respect your opinion about creating new routes at Echo, but your willingness to buy into some of the rumors and mis-information being tossed your way really, truly saddens me. I always took you for the smart one of that bunch. Your statement that naturally clean lines ever existed at Echo is bizarre.
Ryan. You are one of the most passive aggressive human beings I have ever encountered in my life and the amount of misinformation and lies about this whole debacle that originates from you and that Butoo-guy (whoever he is) is substantial. You always say"Be Nice". I say practice what you preach for real and quit being so self-righteous. You have issues with a route getting cleaned with a brush? A very soft brush I might add. Quit climbing at Echo and Malibu, and Joshua Tree and pretty much everywhere else in Southern California for that matter. Its ALL choss and every single damn one of them got brushed off to make it climbable. I'd appreciate it if you and yours stayed clear of me and mine from now on.
It's really time to move on and quit trying to stoke the dead fire. The park service is happy and they are the only one's who's opinion matters to me at this point.
Skippy and Erik...... Sorry I tossed you two into the whole mess. All you two did was put up a climb in the area that was already "cleaned".
I care about our local climbing enuf to go get in folks faces. After talking with Ben a long time ago it was apparent that I was wasting my time. The dude is totally clueless - a fact.
There are climbs at Echo that are pretty steller and didn't need heavy handed techniques to establish. Ones like "Death by Chocolate", "The Stain" and "Immaculate" to name a few, are all on rock that didn't need to be prepped. I love to do these climbs, they are good. I hope you and Eric have enjoyed these because they are some of the "good ones"
I was sort of shocked that Erik could not see just what was going to happen here with all the plant and moss scrubbing going on, but maybe he did, cause you guys stopped adding climbs.
He has been around the block more than a few times with these climbing fiasco's.
So I will say again, sorry to you two.
C-ya.
GK