They do control the Tatras, and they are especially around the famous areas, and mostly during the high season.
As for Baranie Rohy, it seems that they are a bit more tolerant since this not exactly going wildly offtrails, but on an ancien unmarked trail; what's more by the end of Septembers most of the tourist mass has gone, and people going there tend to me more aware of what they undertake, since mostly local people who know the area tend to remain in this season.
Both Polish and Slovak Tatras are gorgeous (thus despite the Polish ones are 4 times smaller in superficy than the Slovak ones). As for our excursion, we started from Poland but the whole trip was made in Slovakia: if you read carefully we pass the border at Jurgow during the saturday morning on the way to the start (and so we did for the return).
As for climbing licences, the Tatras is a national park in both countries where offtrails is forbidden. I am not a fan of regulations in mountains but I completely agree with theses ones: these are very sharp and dangerous mountains, in the middle of the flat central Europe, visited by millions every year; if you let everyone go everywhere it will be a tragedy (as much for security than for rubbish left in mountains).
The best compromise the authorities have made so far is that cardholders of any club affiliated to the UIAA only have the right to venture offtrails, and only in certain conditions (approaches to climbing routes; and out of zones classified "Natura 2000")
Officially we were then all right for this trip, but sometimes guards are a bit stiff and rules a bit unclear, so it's better to avoid them...
Last night I did read your report from beginning to end, surely with pleasure. This is an interesting tale to any hiker – Polish or foreign – an especially for those who love the Tatras:-), even though at times you sound like you’re talking French:). As I’ve told you before, if I were in your shoes I’d be doing the same thing although, considering the quality of road plus the ranger nuisance I’d be tempted to opt for the Alps rather than the Tatras, or I'd just drive through Racibórz and the Czech Republic.
Now, a few quick observations:
1 The area around "Broad Saddle" (Siroke Sedlo), does seem to guarantee chamois-watching although it doesn’t usually offer breathtaking apparitions:D
2 The shallow White Tarns (Bielé Plesa) are of glacial origin and have low moraine levees around
3 IMHO Slovak buses, especially west of Poprad, are reliable (despite being slow).
4 Gypsies are not PC, the Roma people are. I don’t think they mind being called gypsies but doubtless they’ve been discriminated against and excluded from society much too long. Their lives can be compared to what African Americans had to go through more than half a century ago.
Cheers,
Jacek
Thanks for the comment. Yes, my "french english" probably sounds as funny as "polish english" and so on :)
Your idea of going to the Alps is good (I've got one dream which is to come back to Slovenian Alps), but they're much further than the Tatras for a week-end trip... As for mountains where I have attaches and where offtrails is possible in the widest sense of the word, you know where my mind is :)
As for your remarks : 1/ There is in my opinion no place to get chamois "on demand" (except "Mc Donalds Matterhorn" ? :), I passed twice Siroke Sedlo before without seing them. 2/ Sure, although they don't have this characteristic shape of "natural rocky dam" that most glaciar lakes have on the downstream shore. Perhaps I misexplained... 3/ Once I did a 1-day loop coming down to T-Kotlina via Chata Plesnivec, the time when the bus came was completely random; as for the Baranie trip, the one we took by mistake was not written too. But I took these busses many other times sucessfully so it's not so bad, althrough they're often packed with people. 4/ The nuance between Gypsies and Roms is not very clear for me, but I agree, the conditions in which these people live, and especially, in Slovakia are inimaginable, see this... (much more different and "genuine" than the "gypsies" we have in France...)
0 Right you are, Polish English is as funny as French English, and I bet English Polish is usually funnier:-)
1 I don't eat climbing companions :))
2 aha, they're moraine lakes rather than cirque ones, that is dammed by moraine rather than gouged by a glacier
3 maybe they're more reliable in summer while lots of tourists are around (?)
4 the Roma people I first met were those who still live in the shanties at the bridge between Bukowina and Jurgów, on/very close to the ground that often gets flooded. As you noticed there are many more in Slovakia. In today's Poland also quite a few Poles live like that, mostly in the areas where there used to be huge state-run farms in the days of communism. Tomasz Tomaszewski has photographed both communities: Gypsies and A Stone's Throw, there are a couple of pics taken in France as well...
Great TR! It certainly looks like you had an awesome trip. The pictures are fabulous. Did you use a point-and-shoot or a digital SLR? Either way, the results are fantastic. Nicely done.
WoundedKnee - Feb 5, 2009 5:46 pm - Voted 10/10
Beautiful areaNice report. I guess there aren't that many rangers there...
visentin - Feb 9, 2009 2:33 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Beautiful areaThey do control the Tatras, and they are especially around the famous areas, and mostly during the high season.
As for Baranie Rohy, it seems that they are a bit more tolerant since this not exactly going wildly offtrails, but on an ancien unmarked trail; what's more by the end of Septembers most of the tourist mass has gone, and people going there tend to me more aware of what they undertake, since mostly local people who know the area tend to remain in this season.
skorpeo - Feb 8, 2009 11:00 pm - Voted 9/10
gorgeousYour trip report makes me want to visit Poland or is it Slovakia?
One question though. Do you need some sort of license to climb? Do you have to prove to some official you are good enough?
visentin - Feb 9, 2009 2:29 am - Hasn't voted
Re: gorgeousBoth Polish and Slovak Tatras are gorgeous (thus despite the Polish ones are 4 times smaller in superficy than the Slovak ones). As for our excursion, we started from Poland but the whole trip was made in Slovakia: if you read carefully we pass the border at Jurgow during the saturday morning on the way to the start (and so we did for the return).
As for climbing licences, the Tatras is a national park in both countries where offtrails is forbidden. I am not a fan of regulations in mountains but I completely agree with theses ones: these are very sharp and dangerous mountains, in the middle of the flat central Europe, visited by millions every year; if you let everyone go everywhere it will be a tragedy (as much for security than for rubbish left in mountains).
The best compromise the authorities have made so far is that cardholders of any club affiliated to the UIAA only have the right to venture offtrails, and only in certain conditions (approaches to climbing routes; and out of zones classified "Natura 2000")
Officially we were then all right for this trip, but sometimes guards are a bit stiff and rules a bit unclear, so it's better to avoid them...
yatsek - Feb 10, 2009 7:13 am - Voted 10/10
Pleasant Tale IndeedLast night I did read your report from beginning to end, surely with pleasure. This is an interesting tale to any hiker – Polish or foreign – an especially for those who love the Tatras:-), even though at times you sound like you’re talking French:). As I’ve told you before, if I were in your shoes I’d be doing the same thing although, considering the quality of road plus the ranger nuisance I’d be tempted to opt for the Alps rather than the Tatras, or I'd just drive through Racibórz and the Czech Republic.
Now, a few quick observations:
1 The area around "Broad Saddle" (Siroke Sedlo), does seem to guarantee chamois-watching although it doesn’t usually offer breathtaking apparitions:D
2 The shallow White Tarns (Bielé Plesa) are of glacial origin and have low moraine levees around
3 IMHO Slovak buses, especially west of Poprad, are reliable (despite being slow).
4 Gypsies are not PC, the Roma people are. I don’t think they mind being called gypsies but doubtless they’ve been discriminated against and excluded from society much too long. Their lives can be compared to what African Americans had to go through more than half a century ago.
Cheers,
Jacek
visentin - Feb 10, 2009 7:49 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Pleasant Tale IndeedThanks for the comment. Yes, my "french english" probably sounds as funny as "polish english" and so on :)
Your idea of going to the Alps is good (I've got one dream which is to come back to Slovenian Alps), but they're much further than the Tatras for a week-end trip... As for mountains where I have attaches and where offtrails is possible in the widest sense of the word, you know where my mind is :)
As for your remarks : 1/ There is in my opinion no place to get chamois "on demand" (except "Mc Donalds Matterhorn" ? :), I passed twice Siroke Sedlo before without seing them. 2/ Sure, although they don't have this characteristic shape of "natural rocky dam" that most glaciar lakes have on the downstream shore. Perhaps I misexplained... 3/ Once I did a 1-day loop coming down to T-Kotlina via Chata Plesnivec, the time when the bus came was completely random; as for the Baranie trip, the one we took by mistake was not written too. But I took these busses many other times sucessfully so it's not so bad, althrough they're often packed with people. 4/ The nuance between Gypsies and Roms is not very clear for me, but I agree, the conditions in which these people live, and especially, in Slovakia are inimaginable, see this... (much more different and "genuine" than the "gypsies" we have in France...)
yatsek - Feb 10, 2009 10:22 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Pleasant Tale Indeed0 Right you are, Polish English is as funny as French English, and I bet English Polish is usually funnier:-)
1 I don't eat climbing companions :))
2 aha, they're moraine lakes rather than cirque ones, that is dammed by moraine rather than gouged by a glacier
3 maybe they're more reliable in summer while lots of tourists are around (?)
4 the Roma people I first met were those who still live in the shanties at the bridge between Bukowina and Jurgów, on/very close to the ground that often gets flooded. As you noticed there are many more in Slovakia. In today's Poland also quite a few Poles live like that, mostly in the areas where there used to be huge state-run farms in the days of communism. Tomasz Tomaszewski has photographed both communities: Gypsies and A Stone's Throw, there are a couple of pics taken in France as well...
visentin - Feb 11, 2009 6:08 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Pleasant Tale Indeed> maybe they're more reliable in summer while lots of tourists are around (?)
I would say the opposite :)
yatsek - Feb 11, 2009 10:20 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Pleasant Tale IndeedLOL So it seems I was just lucky.
woodsxc - Feb 10, 2009 11:39 am - Voted 10/10
BeautifulGreat TR! It certainly looks like you had an awesome trip. The pictures are fabulous. Did you use a point-and-shoot or a digital SLR? Either way, the results are fantastic. Nicely done.
visentin - Feb 11, 2009 2:37 am - Hasn't voted
Re: BeautifulThanks.
I took just standard pictures; few of them are "stitched" panoramas made with Panorama Maker (like the summit view of Jahnaci Stit)
mvs - Feb 13, 2009 8:17 am - Voted 10/10
That was really niceI know nothing about that area, but you fixed it!