I was really surprised when I saw marks last year. Did you consult Velebit Nature Park before doing it? I don't know but somehow I liked it more without marks, it was wilder. Hopefully they won't bring plastic bottles to the canyon and the river because Krupa was so far well kept secret, known only to handful of kayakers. On the other hand why would they be privileged to see that beauty.
Exactly my thoughts Vid, but I wanted to say it more politely. We went to Krupa together; at least you have a memory of untouched place. It's a great debate here. Some would want to mark each peak, even if it is 10m high. If you ask me I would forbid every action on Velebit from this moment on! Not a single dot anymore, not to say new larger huts, roads, cable cars and who knows what twisted minds plan. This is crucial moment for Velebit. It has never been this endangered in history, marks are smallest problem. Every one has their own idea how to make profit of so far well preserved nature of Velebit. Jesus Christ, if they had any brains, we should save what hasn't been destroyed so far. Who wants cable cars, huts and all the beauties of civilization can go to Alps. Save Velebit for us that like wilderness. Unfortunately that battle has been already lost. But I can't find peace with it. I’m breaking inside my self. As much as I like to share Velebit with the world and show its beauty I fear maybe I shouldn’t. I hope that those who decide to visit, instigated by my pages, are true nature lovers and that they won’t leave garbage behind. But this is imperfect world. This subject hurts.
I must add that certainly hikers will bring less damage than wild kayaking and rafting which is currently going on and growing rapidly in popularity. As we know waterfalls are alive on karst rivers, they grow as calcium carbonate is extracted in water which then sediments on moss. Result is sedra or travertine which turns into rock with time and that makes waterfalls grow constantly. That is very long process but reckless rafters are breaking soft sedra whose process of turning into rock didn’t finish. This is happening at dramatic rate. If only those who organize rafting would say to their customers that they have to walk around waterfalls and avoid destroying sedra this way. Those waterfalls which are low enough to jump from with kayak or raft are being destroyed by their bottoms which scratch when water is low. Those that are higher are avoided and rafts or kayaks are carried around. But anyway visitors like to jump from waterfalls for fun and that way they break the sedra all the same.
It is obvious that nowadays there's enough information what to do and where to go. It's easy to find places of interest. In this marked paths are of no help and in Krupa valley a marked path coul also not be of any help improving orientation. Where my god can you go wrongly in a canyon???
So a marked path will bring in Krupa canyon people, who tend to behave like cattle herds or, better, sheep herds. Either following one tourist guide, doing whatever they are being told to do, either spotting one red mark and anxiously seeking where the next one lies. To make such clients satisfied paths can be marked elsewhere, not in a pearl like Krupa. A little exaggeration hopefully illustrates what I deeply believe.
Last few years in Slovenia we had a similar debate - where to install wind power plants (those ugly fields of huge wind mills). When that company installed measuring towers (without any permission) on most remote and beautiful hills of Slovenian Istra, my proposal was to call some international Greenpeace black squads with dynamite to help us remove them violently. Nothing else helped. I don't know the advice how to fight such intentions, Sasa. The only certain thing is: gather all who think like you, make forums, raise voice, lobby wherever possible, in short, only intensive activity can help. May be other SP-ers have some experience.
I was really surprised when I saw marks last year. Did you consult Velebit Nature Park before doing it? I don't know but somehow I liked it more without marks, it was wilder. Hopefully they won't bring plastic bottles to the canyon and the river because Krupa was so far well kept secret, known only to handful of kayakers. On the other hand why would they be privileged to see that beauty.
Exactly my thoughts Vid, but I wanted to say it more politely. We went to Krupa together; at least you have a memory of untouched place. It's a great debate here. Some would want to mark each peak, even if it is 10m high. If you ask me I would forbid every action on Velebit from this moment on! Not a single dot anymore, not to say new larger huts, roads, cable cars and who knows what twisted minds plan. This is crucial moment for Velebit. It has never been this endangered in history, marks are smallest problem. Every one has their own idea how to make profit of so far well preserved nature of Velebit. Jesus Christ, if they had any brains, we should save what hasn't been destroyed so far. Who wants cable cars, huts and all the beauties of civilization can go to Alps. Save Velebit for us that like wilderness. Unfortunately that battle has been already lost. But I can't find peace with it. I’m breaking inside my self. As much as I like to share Velebit with the world and show its beauty I fear maybe I shouldn’t. I hope that those who decide to visit, instigated by my pages, are true nature lovers and that they won’t leave garbage behind. But this is imperfect world. This subject hurts.
I must add that certainly hikers will bring less damage than wild kayaking and rafting which is currently going on and growing rapidly in popularity. As we know waterfalls are alive on karst rivers, they grow as calcium carbonate is extracted in water which then sediments on moss. Result is sedra or travertine which turns into rock with time and that makes waterfalls grow constantly. That is very long process but reckless rafters are breaking soft sedra whose process of turning into rock didn’t finish. This is happening at dramatic rate. If only those who organize rafting would say to their customers that they have to walk around waterfalls and avoid destroying sedra this way. Those waterfalls which are low enough to jump from with kayak or raft are being destroyed by their bottoms which scratch when water is low. Those that are higher are avoided and rafts or kayaks are carried around. But anyway visitors like to jump from waterfalls for fun and that way they break the sedra all the same.
It is obvious that nowadays there's enough information what to do and where to go. It's easy to find places of interest. In this marked paths are of no help and in Krupa valley a marked path coul also not be of any help improving orientation. Where my god can you go wrongly in a canyon???
So a marked path will bring in Krupa canyon people, who tend to behave like cattle herds or, better, sheep herds. Either following one tourist guide, doing whatever they are being told to do, either spotting one red mark and anxiously seeking where the next one lies. To make such clients satisfied paths can be marked elsewhere, not in a pearl like Krupa. A little exaggeration hopefully illustrates what I deeply believe.
Last few years in Slovenia we had a similar debate - where to install wind power plants (those ugly fields of huge wind mills). When that company installed measuring towers (without any permission) on most remote and beautiful hills of Slovenian Istra, my proposal was to call some international Greenpeace black squads with dynamite to help us remove them violently. Nothing else helped. I don't know the advice how to fight such intentions, Sasa. The only certain thing is: gather all who think like you, make forums, raise voice, lobby wherever possible, in short, only intensive activity can help. May be other SP-ers have some experience.
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 2:36 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentI was really surprised when I saw marks last year. Did you consult Velebit Nature Park before doing it? I don't know but somehow I liked it more without marks, it was wilder. Hopefully they won't bring plastic bottles to the canyon and the river because Krupa was so far well kept secret, known only to handful of kayakers. On the other hand why would they be privileged to see that beauty.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 9, 2004 3:18 pm - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentTo mark a route through Krupa canyon is a crime! You had a piece of wonderful nature, which is, believe or not, gone forever!
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 5:50 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentExactly my thoughts Vid, but I wanted to say it more politely. We went to Krupa together; at least you have a memory of untouched place. It's a great debate here. Some would want to mark each peak, even if it is 10m high. If you ask me I would forbid every action on Velebit from this moment on! Not a single dot anymore, not to say new larger huts, roads, cable cars and who knows what twisted minds plan. This is crucial moment for Velebit. It has never been this endangered in history, marks are smallest problem. Every one has their own idea how to make profit of so far well preserved nature of Velebit. Jesus Christ, if they had any brains, we should save what hasn't been destroyed so far. Who wants cable cars, huts and all the beauties of civilization can go to Alps. Save Velebit for us that like wilderness. Unfortunately that battle has been already lost. But I can't find peace with it. I’m breaking inside my self. As much as I like to share Velebit with the world and show its beauty I fear maybe I shouldn’t. I hope that those who decide to visit, instigated by my pages, are true nature lovers and that they won’t leave garbage behind. But this is imperfect world. This subject hurts.
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 6:37 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentI must add that certainly hikers will bring less damage than wild kayaking and rafting which is currently going on and growing rapidly in popularity. As we know waterfalls are alive on karst rivers, they grow as calcium carbonate is extracted in water which then sediments on moss. Result is sedra or travertine which turns into rock with time and that makes waterfalls grow constantly. That is very long process but reckless rafters are breaking soft sedra whose process of turning into rock didn’t finish. This is happening at dramatic rate. If only those who organize rafting would say to their customers that they have to walk around waterfalls and avoid destroying sedra this way. Those waterfalls which are low enough to jump from with kayak or raft are being destroyed by their bottoms which scratch when water is low. Those that are higher are avoided and rafts or kayaks are carried around. But anyway visitors like to jump from waterfalls for fun and that way they break the sedra all the same.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 10, 2004 2:35 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentIt is obvious that nowadays there's enough information what to do and where to go. It's easy to find places of interest. In this marked paths are of no help and in Krupa valley a marked path coul also not be of any help improving orientation. Where my god can you go wrongly in a canyon???
So a marked path will bring in Krupa canyon people, who tend to behave like cattle herds or, better, sheep herds. Either following one tourist guide, doing whatever they are being told to do, either spotting one red mark and anxiously seeking where the next one lies. To make such clients satisfied paths can be marked elsewhere, not in a pearl like Krupa. A little exaggeration hopefully illustrates what I deeply believe.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 10, 2004 2:43 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentLast few years in Slovenia we had a similar debate - where to install wind power plants (those ugly fields of huge wind mills). When that company installed measuring towers (without any permission) on most remote and beautiful hills of Slovenian Istra, my proposal was to call some international Greenpeace black squads with dynamite to help us remove them violently. Nothing else helped. I don't know the advice how to fight such intentions, Sasa. The only certain thing is: gather all who think like you, make forums, raise voice, lobby wherever possible, in short, only intensive activity can help. May be other SP-ers have some experience.
toni_cobra - Apr 9, 2004 1:13 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentMountaineers from Zagreb (HPD PLIVA) marked new route (path) throught the whole canyon of Krupa river
Some fotos on http://planinari.pliva.hr/ - page only on Croatian language
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 2:36 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentI was really surprised when I saw marks last year. Did you consult Velebit Nature Park before doing it? I don't know but somehow I liked it more without marks, it was wilder. Hopefully they won't bring plastic bottles to the canyon and the river because Krupa was so far well kept secret, known only to handful of kayakers. On the other hand why would they be privileged to see that beauty.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 9, 2004 3:18 pm - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentTo mark a route through Krupa canyon is a crime! You had a piece of wonderful nature, which is, believe or not, gone forever!
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 5:50 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentExactly my thoughts Vid, but I wanted to say it more politely. We went to Krupa together; at least you have a memory of untouched place. It's a great debate here. Some would want to mark each peak, even if it is 10m high. If you ask me I would forbid every action on Velebit from this moment on! Not a single dot anymore, not to say new larger huts, roads, cable cars and who knows what twisted minds plan. This is crucial moment for Velebit. It has never been this endangered in history, marks are smallest problem. Every one has their own idea how to make profit of so far well preserved nature of Velebit. Jesus Christ, if they had any brains, we should save what hasn't been destroyed so far. Who wants cable cars, huts and all the beauties of civilization can go to Alps. Save Velebit for us that like wilderness. Unfortunately that battle has been already lost. But I can't find peace with it. I’m breaking inside my self. As much as I like to share Velebit with the world and show its beauty I fear maybe I shouldn’t. I hope that those who decide to visit, instigated by my pages, are true nature lovers and that they won’t leave garbage behind. But this is imperfect world. This subject hurts.
Velebit - Apr 9, 2004 6:37 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentI must add that certainly hikers will bring less damage than wild kayaking and rafting which is currently going on and growing rapidly in popularity. As we know waterfalls are alive on karst rivers, they grow as calcium carbonate is extracted in water which then sediments on moss. Result is sedra or travertine which turns into rock with time and that makes waterfalls grow constantly. That is very long process but reckless rafters are breaking soft sedra whose process of turning into rock didn’t finish. This is happening at dramatic rate. If only those who organize rafting would say to their customers that they have to walk around waterfalls and avoid destroying sedra this way. Those waterfalls which are low enough to jump from with kayak or raft are being destroyed by their bottoms which scratch when water is low. Those that are higher are avoided and rafts or kayaks are carried around. But anyway visitors like to jump from waterfalls for fun and that way they break the sedra all the same.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 10, 2004 2:35 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentIt is obvious that nowadays there's enough information what to do and where to go. It's easy to find places of interest. In this marked paths are of no help and in Krupa valley a marked path coul also not be of any help improving orientation. Where my god can you go wrongly in a canyon???
So a marked path will bring in Krupa canyon people, who tend to behave like cattle herds or, better, sheep herds. Either following one tourist guide, doing whatever they are being told to do, either spotting one red mark and anxiously seeking where the next one lies. To make such clients satisfied paths can be marked elsewhere, not in a pearl like Krupa. A little exaggeration hopefully illustrates what I deeply believe.
Vid Pogachnik - Apr 10, 2004 2:43 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentLast few years in Slovenia we had a similar debate - where to install wind power plants (those ugly fields of huge wind mills). When that company installed measuring towers (without any permission) on most remote and beautiful hills of Slovenian Istra, my proposal was to call some international Greenpeace black squads with dynamite to help us remove them violently. Nothing else helped. I don't know the advice how to fight such intentions, Sasa. The only certain thing is: gather all who think like you, make forums, raise voice, lobby wherever possible, in short, only intensive activity can help. May be other SP-ers have some experience.