I have to admit, I felt sad when I saw that a page had been created for this peak. I guess I feel that it's one of those special peaks that you just figure out how to get up on your own (I noticed no route posted yet). I hike mountains around Missoula every weekend (Missions are my favorite) usually with my dogs or my girlfriend. Not very social. I guess I'm kind of hipocritical too because I do look at SP and Pat Caffrey's book and I did buy Mike Hoyt's book. But I need to say, I usually like going up the ones that don't have much info, or just a very brief description in Caffrey's. Of course there's going to be pages for McDonald, Gray Wolf, etc. but for a lot of the lesser known peaks, what is the need to advertise? I don't agree with Mr. Hoyt's theory that more people appreciating the wilderness will help protect it. I think it will actually overcrowd it and degrade it. What are they going to do anyway, revoke the wilderness status? I think there is an element of personal ego going on in these things as far as showing off that one has been up a bunch of mountains and is good at routefinding and photography. One of the greatest feelings is to find your own way up a lesser known, not super easy peak, and to know that yes- some hardy souls have been there, but some jerk from California can't just buy a book or look on a website and go there too. I suppose I could just not look, but that is beside the point. (And the SP pages and guidebooks are usually very well done!) Anyway, I hope I didn't offend, it's just a philosophical difference, and I'm also willing to listen to other thoughts and ideas about it. Hey, always up for a great hike too if anyone wants to go (maybe you can try and change my mind on the way). But please no pages for mountains like Daughter-of-the-Sun, Sunset Peak, Weisner, McLeod etc.- lets keep some secrets.
Well I guess I can say that I am very glad for you that you were not attempting this peak on 9/11/2010....your day would have been absolutely ruined by the 8 people who climbed this peak with me. Enthusiasts all, and the very first peak in the Missions for 5 of them. I can also say they came away, each and every one with the highest regard for the area. To me, showing these folks a lesser known peak was not advertising, but rather sharing the wealth.
On to the philosophical argument, I do not think that a person gains true appreciation or passion for wilderness by sitting at a computer screen, reading a guide book, or watching the National Geographic Channel... but rather it is by first hand experience. I grew up climbing and backpacking in the Rocky Mountains, as I imagine you did too. But if you look at the next generations, they are texting and playing video games, sitting on the couch, eating cheetos, while music is piped into their ears by mp3, in other words their experience is insular.
Unless they become stoked for wilderness, and protect it passionately there will be an incremental degradation of OUR ability to protect these wild-lands from the 4-wheelers, motorcycles, and snowmobiles who would love nothing more than to be able to ride up to Island Lake. I too have struggled with keeping my favorite areas close to my chest, I offer up this TR as evidence;
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/261256/South-Ridge-of-Murphy-Peak.htm
I have found, in the end, however that the world grows larger by sharing it.
I do not write pages for SP to gain points, or to prove anything to anybody. My efforts on SP are my way of sharing the joy I get from having spent a great time in the wilderness. I simply cannot agree with the "close the gate behind ME" attitude that pervades amongst the "no guide book" elitists. I do not believe that well informed people traveling in a "leave no trace" manner, have a detrimental affect on this earth, but rather that their collective experience will actually enhance, and beautify the earth.
I hope someday to explore the finer points of these philosophies with you.
And good on you for buying Mikes book. He really is a great guy, and a passionate advocate for all things wild!
It is kind of funny, Mike and I have become good friends, yet our first contact was a point of disagreement on Summitpost:)
Best Regards;
Tim
For what it's worth, I too have wrestled with both sides here. In the end, I think it's better to share. I came to that conclusion after a few people contacted me after using my pages on remote places and finding them very useful. Those places are hardly overrun because of those people; they just do not appeal to the crowds that despoil the wilderness. Putting info out may result in a few more feet, but they will be the feet of wilderness lovers, not trophy seekers or the types who like to picnic on summits and leave their trash all around. The big national parks will continue to concentrate such types, and although it makes me sad for those places, it is better for the vast rest.
I'm one of the five that day who experienced the Missions for the first time. Hiking and climbing is my passion and I thank you for sharing a new area with me. I have not yet been back to that area, but have very fond memories of the beauty it holds. Your response is very well spoken. Best Regards, Franz
Great to see you back in action here! I have one picky little comment-- could you please add some route information that would at the minimum cover distance, difficulty, and direction? No need for a detailed hand-holding account, but I think that minimum amount just helps a person plan for day vs. backpack, hike or scramble, etc.
Thanks for the kind comments Bob, and a heart felt thanks for taking on the awesome responsibilities of being an "elf". I sincerely appreciate your willingness to devote the time and patience to this site!
On to your comments though...I had originally planned to put up a route page, and hence the overall lack of pictures and route info..
Then I got the first comment, and it forced me to think about the benefit. I have since decided that I will go ahead with the route page, and a trail head page, and hope to get them posted this weekend!
Cheers!
ojo - Sep 20, 2010 3:36 am - Voted 10/10
like the name...... hi,
the name of the peak caught my attention.
Nice page.
saludos, j
T Sharp - Sep 21, 2010 1:27 am - Hasn't voted
Re: like the name...Thanks ojo for the nice comments!
Cheers
Tashcow19 - Sep 21, 2010 8:09 pm - Hasn't voted
let's keep some secretsI have to admit, I felt sad when I saw that a page had been created for this peak. I guess I feel that it's one of those special peaks that you just figure out how to get up on your own (I noticed no route posted yet). I hike mountains around Missoula every weekend (Missions are my favorite) usually with my dogs or my girlfriend. Not very social. I guess I'm kind of hipocritical too because I do look at SP and Pat Caffrey's book and I did buy Mike Hoyt's book. But I need to say, I usually like going up the ones that don't have much info, or just a very brief description in Caffrey's. Of course there's going to be pages for McDonald, Gray Wolf, etc. but for a lot of the lesser known peaks, what is the need to advertise? I don't agree with Mr. Hoyt's theory that more people appreciating the wilderness will help protect it. I think it will actually overcrowd it and degrade it. What are they going to do anyway, revoke the wilderness status? I think there is an element of personal ego going on in these things as far as showing off that one has been up a bunch of mountains and is good at routefinding and photography. One of the greatest feelings is to find your own way up a lesser known, not super easy peak, and to know that yes- some hardy souls have been there, but some jerk from California can't just buy a book or look on a website and go there too. I suppose I could just not look, but that is beside the point. (And the SP pages and guidebooks are usually very well done!) Anyway, I hope I didn't offend, it's just a philosophical difference, and I'm also willing to listen to other thoughts and ideas about it. Hey, always up for a great hike too if anyone wants to go (maybe you can try and change my mind on the way). But please no pages for mountains like Daughter-of-the-Sun, Sunset Peak, Weisner, McLeod etc.- lets keep some secrets.
T Sharp - Sep 22, 2010 12:30 am - Hasn't voted
Re: let's keep some secretsWell I guess I can say that I am very glad for you that you were not attempting this peak on 9/11/2010....your day would have been absolutely ruined by the 8 people who climbed this peak with me. Enthusiasts all, and the very first peak in the Missions for 5 of them. I can also say they came away, each and every one with the highest regard for the area. To me, showing these folks a lesser known peak was not advertising, but rather sharing the wealth.
On to the philosophical argument, I do not think that a person gains true appreciation or passion for wilderness by sitting at a computer screen, reading a guide book, or watching the National Geographic Channel... but rather it is by first hand experience. I grew up climbing and backpacking in the Rocky Mountains, as I imagine you did too. But if you look at the next generations, they are texting and playing video games, sitting on the couch, eating cheetos, while music is piped into their ears by mp3, in other words their experience is insular.
Unless they become stoked for wilderness, and protect it passionately there will be an incremental degradation of OUR ability to protect these wild-lands from the 4-wheelers, motorcycles, and snowmobiles who would love nothing more than to be able to ride up to Island Lake. I too have struggled with keeping my favorite areas close to my chest, I offer up this TR as evidence;
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/261256/South-Ridge-of-Murphy-Peak.htm
I have found, in the end, however that the world grows larger by sharing it.
I do not write pages for SP to gain points, or to prove anything to anybody. My efforts on SP are my way of sharing the joy I get from having spent a great time in the wilderness. I simply cannot agree with the "close the gate behind ME" attitude that pervades amongst the "no guide book" elitists. I do not believe that well informed people traveling in a "leave no trace" manner, have a detrimental affect on this earth, but rather that their collective experience will actually enhance, and beautify the earth.
I hope someday to explore the finer points of these philosophies with you.
And good on you for buying Mikes book. He really is a great guy, and a passionate advocate for all things wild!
It is kind of funny, Mike and I have become good friends, yet our first contact was a point of disagreement on Summitpost:)
Best Regards;
Tim
Bob Sihler - Sep 23, 2010 8:46 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: let's keep some secretsFor what it's worth, I too have wrestled with both sides here. In the end, I think it's better to share. I came to that conclusion after a few people contacted me after using my pages on remote places and finding them very useful. Those places are hardly overrun because of those people; they just do not appeal to the crowds that despoil the wilderness. Putting info out may result in a few more feet, but they will be the feet of wilderness lovers, not trophy seekers or the types who like to picnic on summits and leave their trash all around. The big national parks will continue to concentrate such types, and although it makes me sad for those places, it is better for the vast rest.
GNPgumpy - May 9, 2011 5:28 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: let's keep some secretsI'm one of the five that day who experienced the Missions for the first time. Hiking and climbing is my passion and I thank you for sharing a new area with me. I have not yet been back to that area, but have very fond memories of the beauty it holds. Your response is very well spoken. Best Regards, Franz
T Sharp - May 9, 2011 10:43 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: let's keep some secretsHi Ya Franz!
Very nice to hear from you, and thanks for the kind comments on this page. I hope to enjoy another summit with you soon.
Cheers;
Tim
Bob Sihler - Sep 23, 2010 8:49 pm - Hasn't voted
Hey TimGreat to see you back in action here! I have one picky little comment-- could you please add some route information that would at the minimum cover distance, difficulty, and direction? No need for a detailed hand-holding account, but I think that minimum amount just helps a person plan for day vs. backpack, hike or scramble, etc.
Cheers,
Bob
T Sharp - Sep 25, 2010 1:21 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Hey TimThanks for the kind comments Bob, and a heart felt thanks for taking on the awesome responsibilities of being an "elf". I sincerely appreciate your willingness to devote the time and patience to this site!
On to your comments though...I had originally planned to put up a route page, and hence the overall lack of pictures and route info..
Then I got the first comment, and it forced me to think about the benefit. I have since decided that I will go ahead with the route page, and a trail head page, and hope to get them posted this weekend!
Cheers!