Couldn't find a previous discussion, here goes. I was in the Bellingham WA REI today just poking around. The Black Diamond Hotwire was on sale for $5.93. Then there was CAMP Nano 23 wire gate, just a little biner on sale for $5.93. Really small. OK, so here's the question: How do you pick your biners?

depends on what your racking/using the biners for. If I was going for general convenience, with no worries about weight I would go with the hotwires, they are easer to rack trad gear on, and nicer to hold in your hand.
nano 23's, super lightweight, that's all that;s going for them. personally I hate small biners, my XXL hands just need something bigger to clip a rope through or the like. at the same time, if I'm trying to do a climb with a long approach, where you only need a medium or small rack, they are totally worth it. Who wants to haul any extra gear 10 miles for 4-5 pitches of alpine rock?

get a handfull of both, and keep a lookout for more good deals like this. I have too many biners to count, from old chinards that are older than I am to some trangos that weighs 30 g

Norman wrote:Couldn't find a previous discussion, here goes. I was in the Bellingham WA REI today just poking around. The Black Diamond Hotwire was on sale for $5.93. Then there was CAMP Nano 23 wire gate, just a little biner on sale for $5.93. Really small. OK, so here's the question: How do you pick your biners?

I use the nano's for alpine

I got some Nanos from SAC a month or two ago. $4 something each. I use them for racking gear but they're a bit small for my preference for more demanding use/clipping ropes. I do really like another smallish biner, the Mammut Moses. It's 5g heavier than the Nano but the gate opening is about a quarter inch bigger.

My general selection strategy is a combination of cost, weight, and size.

Norman wrote:OK, so here's the question: How do you pick your biners?

the full strength/ lightest biner I can find...is best for me.

...a wide gate opening is always a bonus...but not critical...

Peace,
Joe

My preference is the BD hotwires. They just feel right in my hands. I also try to keep my rack uniform with the same make/model of biner so in those tired, dark, climbs I'm less likely to fumble around if the biners are all the same. Find what works for you not just what is on sale. Cheers!

Wild Country Heliums: wiregate, keylock nose, frickin' LIGHT, full size/full strength.

Expensive? You betcha! <wink>

Worth it? IMO, yes.


I use these, exclusively, for my alpine/trad draws. OvalWires, Nano's, etc. I only use for racking.

Norman wrote:How do you pick your biners?

some light/expensive ones for free routes etc... & a whole sh.tload of cheapo solid ovals for aid stuff...guess you could say I pick them based on cost. (then there's a whole bunch of oddballs in the "middle"...frankly, I don't really recall where most of them came from??)

Joe White wrote:

Norman wrote:OK, so here's the question: How do you pick your biners?

the full strength/ lightest biner I can find...is best for me.

...a wide gate opening is always a bonus...but not critical...

Peace,
Joe

full strength/lightest = BD Nuetrinos

Thank you "squishy". Alot of people say that and I do not get it. I have had Carabiners ranging from 18KN to 40KN. So where does full strength start?

I love the Nano's and use them in alpine and mountaineering. I took my winter gloves to REI and tried chipping and unchipping every biner there. I like the small biners because I can wrap my hand around them with gloves on.

RickF wrote:full strength/lightest = BD Nuetrinos

The Trango Superfly is marginally stronger than the Neutrino and six grams lighter. The WC Helium is also lighter than the Neutrino.

squishy wrote:what's "full strength"?

Usually "full strength" refers to the strength required of a biner to be CE certified: 20 kN along the main direction with closed gate, and 7 kN along the transverse direction or along the main direction with open gate. EDIT: Those are the specs for biners of type B (basic).

squishy wrote:

RickF wrote:

Joe White wrote:

Norman wrote:OK, so here's the question: How do you pick your biners?

the full strength/ lightest biner I can find...is best for me.

...a wide gate opening is always a bonus...but not critical...

Peace,
Joe

full strength/lightest = BD Nuetrinos

what's "full strength"?

Maybe this is incorrect...but I assumed it meant a carabiner which meets the UIAA or CE strength testing requirements.

Moses
Weight 27 grams
Strength major axis open 8 kilonewtons
Strength major axis closed 23 kilonewtons
Gate open clearance 25 millimeters

I think that is a very good combination. And the price isn't exorbitant either.

PS: If anyone is worried about 20 vs 24 vs 28 kn, there are a lot of other pieces in the system (just about everything) that will fail before that. Open gate strength could be a concern, but this can be reduced to almost nothing with proper use.

squishy wrote:

MRoyer4 wrote:Moses
Weight 27 grams
Strength major axis open 8 kilonewtons
Strength major axis closed 23 kilonewtons
Gate open clearance 25 millimeters

I think that is a very good combination. And the price isn't exorbitant either.

PS: If anyone is worried about 20 vs 24 vs 28 kn, there are a lot of other pieces in the system (just about everything) that will fail before that. Open gate strength could be a concern, but this can be reduced to almost nothing with proper use.

Please see this thread, I understand the weaker points may be the webbing, but in unforeseen situations, high strength is still very valuable...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum ... ner_report

I have a few Moses biners for racking small cams, but this incident made be second guess very thin biners...they don't rate and test them for twisting or torquing movements...

Yes, I agree with you. This was partly my point: a 'biner will not be the cause of system failure if it is loaded on-axis with the gate closed. Thus, 20 vs. 24 vs 28 is irrelevant. Other measures of off-axis strength generally aren't measured or provided for any 'biner. Also, just because the on-axis strength is 28 kn vs 24 kn, doesn't mean it is stronger in all off-axis situations. There may be some correlation, but that is purely conjecture since the numbers are not available. There are too many factors that go into strength (material, profile, lever distance etc.).

Bottom line, climbing is dangerous and gear can unexpectedly fail. I think just about every piece of gear has an anecdotal report of unexpected failure (Aliens, Mastercams, bowline knots, and on and on...). It all comes down to personal preference and what an individual is comfortable with.