Im thinking about doing Denali (West Butt.) in summer of 2010. Before i commit however i want to find out how much i can expect to pay. I plan on going unguided with a couple other people. Minus gear and airfare what can i expect to pay for flight to the glacier, food for a month, transportation costs and other misc. items im sure im forgetting?

also, i have seen a lot of debate as to the best way to set up your sled. Has anyone tried cutting and fixing ski skins to the bottom to prevent the sled from pulling back on you when your stopped and then reversing the skins for coming down to prevent the sled of the last person from riding up on you? Thoughts?

Thanks,
Tim

Air taxi will be your major expense, everything else is peanuts.

Anchorage-Denali bus $75 pp each way;

Stove fuel (can't fly with it),
hostel in anchorage & or talkeetna (<$20/night),
extra beer/pizza while in town.

Food doesn't count, you'd eat whether you were in Alaska or elsewhere.

PS the skins idea sounds brilliant, but I haven't tried it.

Air fare to Anchorage: ~ $400
Glacier flight: ~$550
Shuttle to Talkeetna: ~$150
Permit: $200
Fuel: ~$20
Food: ~$100
Freezing your ass off for 3 weeks: Priceless.

We made brakes for the sleds by tying knots in a pair of 6mm perlon cords and running them lenthwise along the bottom of the sled. I believe AAI has a good how to article on sleds somewhere on their web site.

LOL - the priceless comment - that's a funny post.

Regarding the skins, I haven't had too big a problem with the sled pulling me back. Seems like the skins would cause even more friction moving it forward though. I know I wanted to have as slick a surface as possible to move the sled forward as possible. A bigger problem was keeping it from flipping over especially on cross terrain. Curious if your skin idea will work.

Here's a great article on sled rigging from AAI.

http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2008/01/expedition-sled-rigging.html

I like to carry a baseball bat with me when pulling a sled.

When you are extremely frustrated with your sled flipping over, a baseball bat makes for a more efficient tool with which to beat the sled than a ski pole.

Here are some pictures and a trip report on Denali
http://hillnbatt.com/denali-pics-etc

Cy Kaicener wrote:Here are some pictures and a trip report on Denali
http://hillnbatt.com/denali-pics-etc

Link is broken?

timfoltz wrote:also, i have seen a lot of debate as to the best way to set up your sled. Has anyone tried cutting and fixing ski skins to the bottom to prevent the sled from pulling back on you when your stopped and then reversing the skins for coming down to prevent the sled of the last person from riding up on you? Thoughts?

I find brakes to be a pain in the a$$ more than a benefit. If you want to prevent a sled from pulling back on you when you stop simply turn it sideways. The easiest way to control sleds on the descent is to have each climber control the sled in front of them when going down hill by keeping tension on the climbing rope. The last climber distributes his or her gear into the other sleds and ties their sled on top of another one so they don't have a sled behind them.

I never added up the expenses I paid for our trip last summer, so I can't help you with the costs. It was worth it and after travel costs and the permit, it's just camping in the snow for a couple of weeks and buying or renting warm gear.
Sleds suck above 11k camp. Consider double or triple carries to 14k. Every group we saw struggled with sleds above 11k. Even the guys with their own sleds with rigid poles. We struggled more than everyone else. We have a funny story about that. Don't have anything unsecured, cause the damn thing will tip over at least 3 times per day. Your skin idea might work on the downhill. Probably too much friction for the uphill. An outrigger ski might help to keep it upright. The bad sled sections are when you are traversing a slope. So you would want some sort of adjustable mechanism that you could switch sides depending on the side slope.
If I go back, I'll either double or triple carry above 11k or McGyver up some kind of outrigger for the downhill side during traverses. Duct tape, ski poles or axes, and a ski?
Let us know what you come up with!

Cheeseburglar wrote:I never added up the expenses I paid for our trip last summer, so I can't help you with the costs. It was worth it and after travel costs and the permit, it's just camping in the snow for a couple of weeks and buying or renting warm gear.
Sleds suck above 11k camp. Consider double or triple carries to 14k. Every group we saw struggled with sleds above 11k. Even the guys with their own sleds with rigid poles. We struggled more than everyone else. We have a funny story about that. Don't have anything unsecured, cause the damn thing will tip over at least 3 times per day. Your skin idea might work on the downhill. Probably too much friction for the uphill. An outrigger ski might help to keep it upright. The bad sled sections are when you are traversing a slope. So you would want some sort of adjustable mechanism that you could switch sides depending on the side slope.
If I go back, I'll either double or triple carry above 11k or McGyver up some kind of outrigger for the downhill side during traverses. Duct tape, ski poles or axes, and a ski?
Let us know what you come up with!

I disagree that sleds should not be taken above 11. It is much more efficient to drag something along the snow than to put it in your pack. I have always taken them to 14. There is NO downhill spots between 11 and 14 not even short ones. For the two short sections of side hill just deal with it. On the way down you will have less gear. Stack two sleds together and dont make the person in the back have one. The person behind stops the sled from hitting the next persons feet. Simple. I have tried brakes and they were more trouble than they are worth.

The last time we were up there, we took sleds to 14K. The only real pain in the ass section is Windy Corner. 500 meters or so of side hill traversing so it takes a bit of a zen attitude to get through there without pulling out your hair and losing your voice. The baseball bat idea has some merit. I don't think there are any 100 percent strategies to keep the pig from rolling over. You just have to go one meter at a time and constantly correct.

For the down hill, I learned from watching the Euros that the best method is to lash the baskets of your ski poles tight to the front of the sled and hold your hands behind your back to control. We were on skis and from 14K to the bottom of the hill up to the air field, I don't think I have ever felt smarter. My partner never figured out how to pull this off so I waited for him for a total of 3-4 hours. No, we weren't roped together. No, we aren't good role models. (Passing a crevasse with a cut rope hanging out of a hole in a bridge and helicopter skid marks nearby on the lower glacier makes one question one's choices but it's all about commitment, isn't it?)

I suggest you take skis and practice the "poles behind the back" method for down hill before you get there. It will cut a day off the descent.

Would it be better just to use AT boots with overboots? Im thinking ill be on crampons or skis nearly the whole time.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:When you are extremely frustrated with your sled flipping over, a baseball bat makes for a more efficient tool with which to beat the sled than a ski pole.

I just remember something that may be useful with respect to the sleds tipping over. When tying your duffle to the sled don't pull too tight on your cord(s). This deforms the bottom of the sled, causing it to become more rounded than flat, making it much easier to tip over. Just attach your duffle to the sled loosely so the sled maintains its shape but make sure both are secured to the climbing rope well so neither is lost in a crevasse fall.

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:I like to carry a baseball bat with me when pulling a sled.

When you are extremely frustrated with your sled flipping over, a baseball bat makes for a more efficient tool with which to beat the sled than a ski pole.

To expand on this theory, when beating the sled no longer offers any satisfaction, use the bat to club yourself over the head thus making you forget the freaking sled altogether. Finallly, throw all of your food and perhaps your sleeping bag into the nearest crevasse which will effectively reduce the sled to the absolute least of your problems.