Hi all! I've been a long time hiker, and wanted to make the transition to bigger peaks. I'm doing a 6 day intro to mountaineering course in the Cascades later this summer. I need recommendations for a 75-100L expedition pack.

I'm aware that this is absurdly large, and I typically won't be carrying that much weight, but this is stipulated in the guide outfit's gear list. I'm assuming they either want us to practice, or don't think we know how to pack well. Adding up all my gear per their list, I'm at about 45lbs, and I went with ultra light gear whenever possible. I would prefer if the pack can comfortably carry 50lbs, but a lot of the list items are redundant, and if I were going on my own trip I suspect I could get at least 10lbs lighter. (They use the same gear list for early and late season, so while you always want to be ready for a sudden storm, I'm not expecting it to be especially cold.) I'm overwhelmed by all the choices right now, from the reviews I'm reading it seems like a lot of the light weight packs that strip away extra bells and whistles, may not perform well when carrying 50lbs. (Specifically Cilogear Worksacks, and Hyperlite.)

Any advice would be most appreciated.

My advice is to stop overthinking it. It's a big frickin container for holding stuff. Go to a reputable retailer with a good return policy, pick two or three you like, and try walking up and down stairs with 50 lbs in them. If one feels better than the others, keep it and return the rest.

So, first, a 100L pack is giant. Even for a Denali prep seminar. I can think of very little reason to go anywhere with a pack that large. Most packs in the 75L range will expand to that range as it is.

Second, partial agreement with nartreb above. Yes, don't over-think it. In the end it's just a sack. But it's usually the pack companies doing the overthinking. Not you. They throw all kinds of bullshit on their packs that you don't need. Crazy padding, suspension "systems", stupid and useless pockets ... and a pile of other "features". There is a LOT of shit on the market. And a lot of "backpacking" packs that are utter crap for climbing/mountaineering. UTTER crap.

Buy a simple, light, durable pack that carries well. Keep it simple.

Lastly, a light, simple pack like a Cilogear or Hyperlite only carries like crap if the user doesn't have a clue how to load it. Any of those packs will carry just fine if you use your brain when you're loading it. This silly rumor that those packs can't carry heavy loads is propagated by users who don't know what they're doing. Full stop.

Find a better guide service. 50 liters is more than enough for a 6 day mountaineering trip in the Cascades. I can see going as large as a 75 liter because of all the extra gear they require, but 100 liters is unnecessarily large. Who have you selected as your guide service?

I'm doing my trip with Alpine Ascents, my understanding is they are pretty reputable? This is the gear list: http://www.alpineascents.com/rentalform ... RentalFee3

Regarding the pack loading, good to know. The reviews I read were from Outdoor Gear Lab, but Cilogear has a video with a Denali ranger using the 75L pack. I figure if it's good enough for a ranger... But if I buy a pack from REI, I can return it if it doesn't work out for me. It's sounding like in the end the pack really doesn't matter all that much as long as it's durable and doesn't have a bunch of junk hanging off of it.

The trip isn't until August, I've been doing training hikes by loading up my backpacking pack with gallons of water, but I'd like to start doing them with the pack I'll be using on the trip so I can get used to it and know how to load it for maximum comfort.

I just bought a new 75 litres backpack myself for alpine expeditions, but that is mainly because of the huge -30 sleeping bag I've bought. Even in a compression bag, it eats almost half of my 45 litre backpack, which is the backpack I normally use.

With this new 75 liters I will be able to have lots of bulky winter clothing, ice tools etc and gear good enough for expedition lasting several weeks. For summer expeditions/hiking and mountaineering I never need more than 45 litres. That is with a tent stuffed in the backpack as well.

If you ever wanna try more of a winter expedition, that could be a good argument to increase the backpack volume a bit. I haven't fieldt tested my new yet (mountain hardwear south col 70), so I cannot say if it's good or bad, but it's made with pocket for crampons, loops for both poles and ice axes and stuff which my 45 litres doesnt have. Yet it's still lightweight and it's possible to strip away lid and hip belt and use it as a compressed lighter summit backpack as well. Normally I carry a superlight backpack for summit days, but I will skip that one now the very next trip.

Gonna field test the backpack in Norway next weekend and it will be my to go pack for Elbrus in 4 weeks.

What's wrong wIt's your back packing pack? What are you looking for in a mountaineering pack?

Does the gear list they sent you include group gear that the guide service provides and you will be expected to carry (ropes, pro, tents, cooking gear, etc)? That could explain the reason for the large pack. Also, the service may be assuming that many customers are planning to do some bigger climbs with them in the future (Denali, whatever) and are specifying a pack size that can work for those climbs.

Alpine Ascents is an excellent company with a solid reputation. In 2007, I went on their Aconcagua expedition which was led by the great Willi Prittie who now runs their Alaska operations. You are correct in assuming that a pack larger than 75 litres is indeed extremely large and most climbers avoid anything larger. I suspect that the AA recommendation is for training purposes.

I suggest that you call or email Gordon Janow (AA Programs Director) and pose your question & concerns directly to him. I'm sure you'll find him helpful.

Enjoy your Cascades trip.

bethdean wrote:I'm doing my trip with Alpine Ascents, my understanding is they are pretty reputable? This is the gear list: http://www.alpineascents.com/rentalform ... RentalFee3

Alpine Ascents is indeed reputable. I noticed the gear list indicated up to 100 liters if you don't know how to pack. Don't buy anything over 75 liters and figure out how to pack. Guide firms will conduct the course regardless of the weather, thus the huge gear list. They are expecting you to pack for the worst potential weather.

bethdean wrote:Cilogear has a video with a Denali ranger using the 75L pack. I figure if it's good enough for a ranger...

CiloGear is very popular in my neck of the woods, many of my partners use them. I have used them. They are one of the few lightweight alpine packs that can also carry a heavy load. And they do both carry and climb well, but suffer from durability issues stemming from basic design flaws. I call it the Space Shuttle syndrome. Packs don't fail because the fabric fails (unless too light a fabric is used), they fail when seams, stitches, zippers breaks. I was skiing/climbing the Ptarmigan Ridge in winter. On the way out, WDOT had plowed HWY 410, which meant a 5.5 mile walk instead of a nice, easy, downhill ski. I could literally hear the straps snapping of off my partner's CiloGear after he loaded his skis on. And that was his third CiloGear pack in three years, and he is a weekend only climber. They are designed with the idea of being configurable, but this leads to lost straps and unnecessary complexity.

bethdean wrote:But if I buy a pack from REI, I can return it if it doesn't work out for me. It's sounding like in the end the pack really doesn't matter all that much as long as it's durable and doesn't have a bunch of junk hanging off of it.

I guess I have a different feeling about packs. The three pieces of gear I make sure fit well and are top quality are:

1: Boots. Nothing can ruin a trip like a poor fitting pair of boots or boots that are not up to the task.
2: Sleeping bag. I like to have a good night's sleep, and having a good bag helps to insure that. I only buy Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering. Consider it an investment, my 19 year old WM is going strong.
3: Backpack. Again, an ill fitting pack can make your trip miserable as can a sack that does not have the support to carry your load. I'm very particular about my pack, and I own quite a few.

bethdean wrote:The trip isn't until August, I've been doing training hikes by loading up my backpacking pack with gallons of water, but I'd like to start doing them with the pack I'll be using on the trip so I can get used to it and know how to load it for maximum comfort.

A good idea. I would look hard at Crux AK or AX 75 liter packs. The designer basically took the complete opposite approach to pack design than Graham at CiloGear. My next pack is going to be a Crux AX 50, if they ever become available.

Thanks everyone this is super helpful, I really appreciate the advice! The gear list only includes a small amount of rope, so I think you're right to assume they are accounting for extra space to help haul group gear.

I wound up getting the Cilogear 75L Worksack, wish I would have seen the reply about the Crux first so I could have checked that out too, especially since it comes in a women's fit. AX has really great reviews at that size, especially with regards to comfort. It's going to be a monster but if the class goes well I'm hoping to take their intermediate Alaska course, and I'd definitely need large capacity for that. It also seems like you can compress the pack down quite a bit. It stings a little to have spent so much on the pack knowing they are working on a women-specific line that isn't out yet, I have found at least with backpacking packs that women specific designs do fit me better, even if the colors are usually ridiculous. Funny enough though large mountain packs for women top out at 50L

I'm glad to hear you reinforce some assumptions I had around which pieces of gear are really important! I made sure to buy my own pair of boots rather than rent (and to buy them now so I have time to try them on and break them in or return them if need be.) I took advantage of the REI annual sale to get $100 off them. I also swapped the sleeping bag I have now for a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite. I expect it to see a lot of use on backpacking trips too. I went ahead and bought all the gear for the class rather than renting, because I'd like to get used packing it and carrying it ahead of time. If there's anything that doesn't work out, REI will take it back or I can sell it. I'm also hoping to pick up a Hilleberg Soulo.

You've probably already heard this but for gear you wear, including packs and especially boots, fit does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and specific product to product. What fits others well or that a lot of sponsored athletes wear and rave about may not fit you well, especially if you don't have the feet or physique of the average sponsored athlete...

JHH60 wrote:You've probably already heard this but for gear you wear, including packs and especially boots, fit does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and specific product to product. What fits others well or that a lot of sponsored athletes wear and rave about may not fit you well, especially if you don't have the feet or physique of the average sponsored athlete...

Yeah I try to stick to Outdoor Gear Lab or non-sponsored reviewers, but even then so much of what's comfortable depends on your own tastes and body it might not help. Friends ask me for backpacking boot recommendations all the time, and I have to tell them to just go someplace and try things on because our feet are shaped different. For all my other gear it's been trial and error, which unfortunately can be an expensive way to learn.

Boots, bag, and backpack - I totally agree are critical. Most of the other stuff isn't nearly as important (unless you get into the realm of technical, life sustaining technical gear). I have held this opinion for many years.

Also, remember that those kind of backpack volume recommendations are based on the "worst gear you can get".
I did rent a sleeping bag at Kilimanjaro and a basket ball would have been tiny next to the non compressable sleeping bag. It was enormous. Thank god it was carried in my duffel between camps, because that sleeping bag would totally have blown my backpack's compartment away...

If you will rent lots of stuff or have older gear, lack compression bags etc, then >75 litres might be needed after all.