climbing mountains is supposed to be fun!

ywardhorner wrote:

JohnP wrote:I've used a step climber (step mill is what it's called in my gym) a lot for preparation for climbing steep snow and can't really add much more than what has already been said. What I can recommend, and what I've followed, is to never train extensively with more than 25 lbs of weight in my pack. The reason is two fold: any more weight during training increases my recovery time significantly and, most importantly, reduces the "mileage" on my back, core, and knees. Trying to build muscle strength (heavy pack) and endurance at the same time day after day is a recipe, IMHO, for overtraining and ultimately, injury. If I know I will be carrying a heavy pack on a specific climb I will incorporate maybe a couple of heavy pack sessions (in my case it's hiking in the hills near my home) per week for 2 or 3 weeks prior in order to get accustomed to the feel of the extra weight but this is only for a brief length of time not as a part of my regular workouts for the reasons mentioned above.

I train with a 45 lb pack 2-3 times per week all spring/summer. I don't find that it affects my recovery time. Right now I'm back in the gym trying to improve my speed with intervals on stair mill and fast walking on treadmill (with pack) and I'm starting trail running (no pack). Most of the summer I did a 2-4 hour hike up my nearby training mountain (1300 to 2600 foot elevation gain) with my 45 lb pack, 2-3 times per week, in addition to long uphill day hikes (peak bagging) with a light pack. I find that if I train with a light pack, I then get slaughtered when I go out with a heavy pack. I usually carry about 45 lbs (+/- 5) when going after technical overnight summer routes in the mountains (I'm psycho about buying only the lightest possible gear).

I recently decided to start dumping out all my water weight at the top of my training hill to spare my knees on the descent. I think that's a good way to go.

Ze wrote:From a pure cardio aspect, the best routine is the one that you will make you the most likely to push yourself.

1 minute intervals are great for pushing yourself, but not the best for endurance development, and frankly the adaptations to intervals are done after like 3 weeks of them- basically they are best as a "top off" to your workouts and blocks before tapering a week before a big effort.

IMO the best routine (for all around endurance) is structured around tackling each endurance energy mechanism.

1 day: High intensity intervals (example, 3 x 6 min). These are great interval durations. Why? Because you will actually tax both anaerobic and aerobic glycolysis systems quite well. It takes 2 -3 minutes to shift away from anaerobic to more aerobic energy usage, so intervals < 3 minutes simply don't take the aerobic system that hard. 6 minutes is good as you'll get a few minutes at very high % of your VO2 max and HRmax. These are essentially VO2 max intervals.

After the effort, mix in some cross-training, either other moderate effort cardio or weights or other technical aspects you want to improve.

1 day: High intensity threshold workout (1 x 20 - 40 min). This is the best bang for your buck effort. This is a moderate duration effort that is really aimed at working just above your lactate threshold. The duration could be longer but it becomes really mentally and physically taxing to sustain the appropriate intensity for that long, so YMMV. This tends to be the most painful workout for me, (though final HR of 96% max is similar to workout #1). This is mostly about aerobic glycolysis though still a good amount of anaerobic initially. Your body is generating a decent (but not absurd) amount of lactate that ideally you want your muscles to better learn how to utilize to become more efficient.

1 day: Long duration ( multi hours). Now you will be below your lactate threshold and more reliant on the combination of aerobic carb and fat metabolism. This is obviously relevant for the long duration efforts in mountaineering.

You can add 1 minute intervals into any of these, or on additional days, but IMO these form the foundation of a plan that allows you to be quickly ready for any duration endurance effort.

kevin trieu wrote:

Ze wrote:...
1 day: High intensity intervals (example, 3 x 6 min). These are great interval durations. Why? Because you will actually tax both anaerobic and aerobic glycolysis systems quite well. It takes 2 -3 minutes to shift away from anaerobic to more aerobic energy usage, so intervals < 3 minutes simply don't take the aerobic system that hard. 6 minutes is good as you'll get a few minutes at very high % of your VO2 max and HRmax. These are essentially VO2 max intervals.
...

jeeze... climbing mountains is supposed to be fun! the Western world's too focused on the training aspect of climbing. the Russians don't train. the Sherpas don't train. they just climb the mountains.

but yes, doing the stairmaster until you almost puke is a good way to train. doing physical activities until you almost puke is a good way to measure if you have done enough. puke or hallucination and sometimes both, simultaneously.

WyomingSummits wrote:

ywardhorner wrote:I train with a 45 lb pack 2-3 times per week all spring/summer. I don't find that it affects my recovery time. Right now I'm back in the gym trying to improve my speed with intervals on stair mill and fast walking on treadmill (with pack) and I'm starting trail running (no pack). Most of the summer I did a 2-4 hour hike up my nearby training mountain (1300 to 2600 foot elevation gain) with my 45 lb pack, 2-3 times per week, in addition to long uphill day hikes (peak bagging) with a light pack. I find that if I train with a light pack, I then get slaughtered when I go out with a heavy pack. I usually carry about 45 lbs (+/- 5) when going after technical overnight summer routes in the mountains (I'm psycho about buying only the lightest possible gear).

I recently decided to start dumping out all my water weight at the top of my training hill to spare my knees on the descent. I think that's a good way to go.

So for a 2-3 day Alpine rock trip, including trad rack and water, you can keep it to 45lbs? If this is so, care to share what's in your pack? Mine is upper 60lbs for something like that.

So for a 2-3 day Alpine rock trip, including trad rack and water, you can keep it to 45lbs? If this is so, care to share what's in your pack? Mine is upper 60lbs for something like that.

my trip over Jackass pass to the Cirque consisted of me with 75lbs

Vitaliy M. wrote:

So for a 2-3 day Alpine rock trip, including trad rack and water, you can keep it to 45lbs? If this is so, care to share what's in your pack? Mine is upper 60lbs for something like that.

+10F down sleeping bag/ neoair pad (both in a compression sack)
My partner will carry either the stove/gas or a tent. I will carry the other item (my tent is MH Direkt 2 - which is about 2.8 lbs packed)
If I can, I avoid taking crampons or ice axe.
I do not carry water, and drink out of alpine creeks/lakes (maps will tell you where those are). Prefer snow melt from glaciers. Do not use a purifier, unless I am going to a crowded area.
I do not bring a change of clothing or a bunch of extra shit. Just a lightweight knife, headlamp, map, light hat and some duct tape
Usually a shell jacket and a down sweater. No need for a large jacket in summer (around Sierra at least).
For food I started mixing instant oatmeal, with raisins, chocolate and instant coffee. I mix it in a ziplock bag and all i have to do is add some water to it and it is ready. For dinner I either do freeze dried or top ramen. If I do top ramen I usually bring cheeze/ham, or a can of tuna if I do not care about the weight that much. + snacks. Snack depend on how much I care about the weight. Lately I like a bagel with nutella or peanut butter/jelly sandwich.
For rack I usually do not take any extra gear than indicated+10-12 slings. Half of them would have 2 carabiners and half would have one (I shoulder these).

my trip over Jackass pass to the Cirque consisted of me with 75lbs

Did you pack a panda? On a trip to climb Quitaraju and Alpamayo (brought 8 days of food) I carried all the needed winter gear, my half of group gear (we were a 2 person team), and my pack was around 50 lbs. Either you suck at estimating the weight, or REALLY suck at packing. When I planned a 4 day/3 night ridge traverse with a 40M 9.2 rope and a single set of cams to #1/nuts my pack weighted 20 lbs (without water which I did not carry like always).

Vitaliy M. wrote:+10F down sleeping bag/ neoair pad (both in a compression sack)
My partner will carry either the stove/gas or a tent. I will carry the other item (my tent is MH Direkt 2 - which is about 2.8 lbs packed)
If I can, I avoid taking crampons or ice axe.
I do not carry water, and drink out of alpine creeks/lakes (maps will tell you where those are). Prefer snow melt from glaciers. Do not use a purifier, unless I am going to a crowded area.
I do not bring a change of clothing or a bunch of extra shit. Just a lightweight knife, headlamp, map, light hat and some duct tape
Usually a shell jacket and a down sweater. No need for a large jacket in summer (around Sierra at least).
For food I started mixing instant oatmeal, with raisins, chocolate and instant coffee. I mix it in a ziplock bag and all i have to do is add some water to it and it is ready. For dinner I either do freeze dried or top ramen. If I do top ramen I usually bring cheeze/ham, or a can of tuna if I do not care about the weight that much. + snacks. Snack depend on how much I care about the weight. Lately I like a bagel with nutella or peanut butter/jelly sandwich.
For rack I usually do not take any extra gear than indicated+10-12 slings. Half of them would have 2 carabiners and half would have one (I shoulder these).

ywardhorner wrote:

Vitaliy M. wrote:+10F down sleeping bag/ neoair pad (both in a compression sack)
My partner will carry either the stove/gas or a tent. I will carry the other item (my tent is MH Direkt 2 - which is about 2.8 lbs packed)
If I can, I avoid taking crampons or ice axe.
I do not carry water, and drink out of alpine creeks/lakes (maps will tell you where those are). Prefer snow melt from glaciers. Do not use a purifier, unless I am going to a crowded area.
I do not bring a change of clothing or a bunch of extra shit. Just a lightweight knife, headlamp, map, light hat and some duct tape
Usually a shell jacket and a down sweater. No need for a large jacket in summer (around Sierra at least).
For food I started mixing instant oatmeal, with raisins, chocolate and instant coffee. I mix it in a ziplock bag and all i have to do is add some water to it and it is ready. For dinner I either do freeze dried or top ramen. If I do top ramen I usually bring cheeze/ham, or a can of tuna if I do not care about the weight that much. + snacks. Snack depend on how much I care about the weight. Lately I like a bagel with nutella or peanut butter/jelly sandwich.
For rack I usually do not take any extra gear than indicated+10-12 slings. Half of them would have 2 carabiners and half would have one (I shoulder these).

I've got a Neoair too, those things are sweet. And I don't take extra clothes or fancy food, just dehydrated nastiness (Mountain House) and I'm in the same gross socks & underwear for however long it takes. Sweat dries if you're wearing good gear. It trips me out when I read about people cooking up gourmet meals in the hills. All I can think is WHY would you carry all that crap. Eat when you get home.

I'm the same way.....just one extra pair of socks. Same with the food. I sleep on a BigAgnes 48" airpad......and I'm close to 6-3. Cut corners where I could.

ywardhorner wrote:

I'm the same way.....just one extra pair of socks. Same with the food. I sleep on a BigAgnes 48" airpad......and I'm close to 6-3. Cut corners where I could.