charles wrote:mvs wrote:Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".
The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.
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Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.
What I meant to do was something like this:
#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?
I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.
I´m glad you´ve improved on the "sacrifice" bit, Mike - I can relate in a more positive way to your train of thought. As for you being "dishonest", I can only write - don´t be so bloody dishonest about you being dishonest!
Now I´ll think about what it´s meant and done for me - climbing and mountains that is.
Servus
Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?
Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.
Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.
Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.
Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.
Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.
Guy:
I figured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.
That is a pretty oxymoron statement considering your prior post....
And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber.
As I see that transaction, you Guy, can dish it out, expect me to suck it up, yet you can't take it.... hmmm.
I have been taught through the ages that no one can offend me unless I allow them to. Think about it.