Hi there, sorry got to disagree with you on this one. Asherton’s scrambling grades aren't solely based on the technicality of the rock, but also on route finding and the chances of a safe escape, both of which aren’t straight forward on this route. Although climbing on the Arête is easy enough for experienced or bold climbers, most will opt to use a rope, and in wet weather or snow I definitely wouldn’t recommend climbing on it without one.
Hi.did you start climb in the Western gully of the nose or on the nose itself?This makes difference in grade.Parsons nose is most difficult part of the climb.I agree that you should not go there in wet weather because there is not good friction on the rocks.georgen
Didn't do either; when I did the arête we climbed our own route up a crack on the southern side, haven't seen it described anywhere though. Parsons Nose is a V Diff and harder than the rest of the route, and although I've solod up to that grade, I wouldn't recommend anyone else do it. Just because I can solo it doesn't mean it's not a V Diff. Also when soloing, no matter at what grade, the risks are greater and I wouldn't want anyone suing me for such advice if they took a fall. I guess what I’m saying here is that you’ve got to be a bit careful what you write.
Suing me or you?!!for what??If you will try to climb parsons nose tomorrow and you will fall it is your fault not mine!Every route description is personal point of view.If anyone want to to use the rope on clogwyn person it is his choice.If I will tell you that Eiger north face is easy scramble,will you go there without any equipment?Frankly,your argument is senseless.georgen
Dude, calm down! You've missed the point a bit. Yes it's a person’s choice whether or not they use the correct equipment; but the equipment they choose doesn't determine the routes difficulty. That is my point. What you wrote wasn’t a route description, and to say "I would say it is grade 2 scramble instead of 3.rope is not necessary, could lead someone into difficulty if taken literally.
For example last year a man was killed in a fall on Tryfan while following a route described in a guidebook as easy. The route was poorly described and the guidebook gave the route a misleading title. No one was sued, but the threat was certainly there. This is why I said I wouldn’t write what you did; what I choose to do myself and what I might verbally suggest my friends do, is something quite separate to what I would write in the public domain. But that’s my choice; frankly you can write whatever you like. In my opinion it deserves the grade 3 rating, as I said before Asherton’s scrambling grades aren't solely based on the technicality of the rock.
No probs Nanuls. Its a good debate. I aggree with you on the grade however. It is an easy route in some ways. But has some serious areas with exposure and more difficult retreat. I have done without rope. But again this is not a recommendation and doesnt mean the grade is lower. I have been on a scrable at the same grade and a mate fell. He is alive because we elected to protect the scramble. Many may have opted not to. We can all be proud and tackle a route we now know, and maybe have contempt with. But that never alters the actual route and its abject dangers.................but, I'm no expert. I just scramble a bit after reading a few books!
I do agree what you are saying mountainmanjohn!The thing is you can not rely what is in the book,for example grade 2 in Scrambles in Snowdonia/S.Ashton.Cicerone guide/is same as grade 3 Scrambles in Lake d./B.Evans,Cicerone giude/....
georgen - Jun 30, 2008 9:04 am - Voted 10/10
difficultyI would say it is grade 2 scramble instead of 3.rope is not necessary.georgen
Nanuls - Jun 30, 2008 10:35 am - Voted 10/10
I disagreeHi there, sorry got to disagree with you on this one. Asherton’s scrambling grades aren't solely based on the technicality of the rock, but also on route finding and the chances of a safe escape, both of which aren’t straight forward on this route. Although climbing on the Arête is easy enough for experienced or bold climbers, most will opt to use a rope, and in wet weather or snow I definitely wouldn’t recommend climbing on it without one.
Cheers
Dan
georgen - Jun 30, 2008 2:23 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeHi.did you start climb in the Western gully of the nose or on the nose itself?This makes difference in grade.Parsons nose is most difficult part of the climb.I agree that you should not go there in wet weather because there is not good friction on the rocks.georgen
Nanuls - Jul 3, 2008 8:56 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeDidn't do either; when I did the arête we climbed our own route up a crack on the southern side, haven't seen it described anywhere though. Parsons Nose is a V Diff and harder than the rest of the route, and although I've solod up to that grade, I wouldn't recommend anyone else do it. Just because I can solo it doesn't mean it's not a V Diff. Also when soloing, no matter at what grade, the risks are greater and I wouldn't want anyone suing me for such advice if they took a fall. I guess what I’m saying here is that you’ve got to be a bit careful what you write.
Cheers
Dan
georgen - Jul 4, 2008 9:31 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeSuing me or you?!!for what??If you will try to climb parsons nose tomorrow and you will fall it is your fault not mine!Every route description is personal point of view.If anyone want to to use the rope on clogwyn person it is his choice.If I will tell you that Eiger north face is easy scramble,will you go there without any equipment?Frankly,your argument is senseless.georgen
Nanuls - Jul 4, 2008 10:15 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeDude, calm down! You've missed the point a bit. Yes it's a person’s choice whether or not they use the correct equipment; but the equipment they choose doesn't determine the routes difficulty. That is my point. What you wrote wasn’t a route description, and to say "I would say it is grade 2 scramble instead of 3.rope is not necessary, could lead someone into difficulty if taken literally.
For example last year a man was killed in a fall on Tryfan while following a route described in a guidebook as easy. The route was poorly described and the guidebook gave the route a misleading title. No one was sued, but the threat was certainly there. This is why I said I wouldn’t write what you did; what I choose to do myself and what I might verbally suggest my friends do, is something quite separate to what I would write in the public domain. But that’s my choice; frankly you can write whatever you like. In my opinion it deserves the grade 3 rating, as I said before Asherton’s scrambling grades aren't solely based on the technicality of the rock.
Links:
Tribute to 'adventurer' husband
Walker death sparks guide review
Cheers
Dan
PS sorry John
georgen - Jul 4, 2008 1:55 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeCORRECTION!!Grade 2,however rope might be useful.Certainly not for person who has not background in mountaineering!!georgen
mountainmanjohn - Jul 22, 2008 4:26 am - Hasn't voted
Re: I disagreeNo probs Nanuls. Its a good debate. I aggree with you on the grade however. It is an easy route in some ways. But has some serious areas with exposure and more difficult retreat. I have done without rope. But again this is not a recommendation and doesnt mean the grade is lower. I have been on a scrable at the same grade and a mate fell. He is alive because we elected to protect the scramble. Many may have opted not to. We can all be proud and tackle a route we now know, and maybe have contempt with. But that never alters the actual route and its abject dangers.................but, I'm no expert. I just scramble a bit after reading a few books!
georgen - Nov 16, 2008 10:46 am - Voted 10/10
Re: I disagreeI do agree what you are saying mountainmanjohn!The thing is you can not rely what is in the book,for example grade 2 in Scrambles in Snowdonia/S.Ashton.Cicerone guide/is same as grade 3 Scrambles in Lake d./B.Evans,Cicerone giude/....
mountainmanjohn - Nov 24, 2008 4:19 am - Hasn't voted
Re: I disagreeI aggree whith that! I did a grade 3 scramble the other week, and it was WAY harder than many grade 3s I have done before.......your right there. ;)