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b.Great Page

b.

Voted 10/10

I do have to take exception to some of your polemics on the crowds in the Tetons, and especially in the Winds. Even if you travel to Titcomb or the Cirque, you aren't likely to see 75-100 people, much less camps. My wife and I spent two months in the Winds in the summer of '99, including the cirque, and I'll bet we talked to maybe 20 people the whole time.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 4:13 am

Bob SihlerRe: Great Page

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thank you, and exception noted-- I'm just reporting what I've read many times in many sources. I got lucky during my time in the Winds in 2001 and saw very few others once I was a few miles from the trailheads on two different multi-night trips. I have had similar luck on overnights in the Tetons since I've gone mid-week and sought out destinations that see less traffic, but I again understand from many sources that those were exceptional experiences. I remember hiking down Paintbrush Canyon and seeing dozens heading up (during storm hours, too) and hiking out of Death Canyon and seeing literally hundreds playing in the water around the ranger cabin.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 11:19 am

b.Re: Great Page

b.

Voted 10/10

The Teton crowds are localized and pretty easy to avoid. The Winds are just simply enormous and not many people are willing to hike or even ride a horse that far. That experience in the Winds is standard, I think. Even in Titcomb, since we weren't climbing Gannett, we really didn't run in to many people, and it was the week of Labor Day. It may not feel like the Bob, with the openness and tundra, but it's every bit as wild, especially off trail. Let me know if you head to either place again, and I could probably help you avoid the crowds. Thanks again for this page.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 1:43 pm

Bob SihlerRe: Great Page

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thanks for that. I did try to make clear in my comments on both ranges that solitude is easy to find off-trail and/or away from the most popular areas. My own experiences tell me you're exactly right in what you say about the typical backcountry experience out there, especially in the Winds. And I may be out there next summer, so maybe I will get in touch closer to then.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 11:06 pm

SaintgrizzlyOne of SP's best ! ! !

Saintgrizzly

Voted 10/10

Fantastic job, Bob! Glad to see you mentioning the oft-misunderstood "Jackson" vs. "Jackson Hole" bit; I've always delighted in pointing out the difference to the unknowing....

On a more serious and important note, there is an excellent book, "Yellowstone to Yukon: Freedom to Roam," dealing with the proposed wildlife "corridor" linking those two geographical areas. Well worth checking out! Also, it might be good to note that in addition to what you've mentioned, the Mission Range (having as abrupt and great a topographical upthrust as the Tetons), Swan Range (the crest of the Swans is the western boundary of the "Bob"), and Great Bear and Scapegoat wildernesses are also an important link in the Yellowstone to Yukon thinking/planning here in the Continental U.S.

I enjoyed this page! A lot.

--Vernon
Posted Oct 3, 2006 7:30 pm

Bob SihlerRe: One of SP's best ! ! !

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thank you, Vernon. Actually, the page is an homage of sorts to your Glacier page, which is the best I've seen on SP, and mine still doesn't come close to it.

I did add the Missions to my Y2Y comments. Since I included the Swans, Great Bear, and Scapegoat in my Bob Marshall Page, I'm hoping anyone who goes looking will understand they're a part of Y2Y, too.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I may check it out. I did read the National Geographic special volume on Y2Y, and that was both enlightening and inspiring.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 10:51 pm

brendonGood job

brendon

Voted 10/10

Great area. I'd generally agree with b. about the crowds, but during the tourist season with a limited amount of time, I think your experience is pretty normal. Too much territory to be crowded everywhere in those ranges, though.

Some suggestions:

Shorten the name to "Yellowstone Ecosystem," since the mountain ranges part is implied, and the current title is long in my opinion.

Include the Snake River Range.

Mention the book "Select Peaks of the Greater Yellowstone," by Thomas Turiano. It is one of the best out there.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 8:26 pm

Bob SihlerRe: Good job

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Good suggestion on the name-- I made the change. In truth, I never liked the name I used and preferred "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem," but I thought that title might not pop up on many searches for Yellowstone locations. Why I never thought of just "Yellowstone Ecosystem" I really don't know.

I will add a short section with book suggestions and include the one you suggested.

About the Snake River Range-- I know of it but really didn't consider it to be one of the really major ranges of the area because of its size relative to the others. I also know almost nothing about it beyond the fact that I've seen it a few times from near Alpine and Jackson. But if you, knowing the area more thoroughly than I do, think it should be included, I can attach it with what little I do know about it. I'll look on the SP page to see if there are any photos I might want to attach, too.

And about the crowds-- I don't mean to argue much, but I think you and b. focused a little too much on those parts of the page. There's ample acknowledgement in there that outside those very popular areas, solitude is easy to find, especially in the Winds. All of my backpacking experiences in both ranges can testify to it.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 11:03 pm

Bob SihlerRe: Well....

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

That was pretty much my point-- that tourists are the ones who don't know the difference. Whenever I tell people here at home that I'm taking a trip to Wyoming, I have to brace myself for the question of whether I'm going to Jackson Hole, and when they start talking about shops, motels, and restaurants, I just shake my head inside. There are probably more JH stickers on cars here in Reston, VA than there are in Jackson.
Posted Oct 3, 2006 10:54 pm

OlympicMtnBoyWow!

OlympicMtnBoy

Voted 10/10

How could I not comment on this page! Exceptional! Your design with the photographs is so awesome! All your information is great too, but all those photos...I'll have to take an hour to just fully enjoy your page! Well done!
Posted Oct 3, 2006 11:26 pm

OlympicMtnBoyRe: Wow!

OlympicMtnBoy

Voted 10/10

Just as a side note, I just finished a book about the Nez Perce Indians going through Yellowstone National Park in 1877 and how they escaped capture in the Absaroka Range from five columns of US troops. Seeing all your pictures makes me realize how incredible their escape was with hundreds of ponies!
Posted Oct 3, 2006 11:30 pm

Bob SihlerRe: Wow!

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thank you for both messages. At Dead Indian Summit near Cody, there are interpretive signs telling a little of the story you read about.

I'm glad you liked the page, and I hope you get to spend some time out here. Your pages have certainly made me want to give the Olympics a closer look.
Posted Oct 4, 2006 9:43 pm

Bob SihlerRe: Really very nice page

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thank you so much! I hope some of my deep love for the area showed through in the writing and presentation; that was my aim.
Posted Oct 11, 2006 1:27 am

woodstriderYellowstone

woodstrider

Hasn't voted

Thank You, this is an awesome page- really outstanding. So, when does the book come out?
Posted Dec 8, 2006 12:19 am

Bob SihlerRe: Yellowstone

Bob Sihler

Hasn't voted

Thank you so much! The book comes out when someone's willing to publish it and finance my "research time" out there!
Posted Dec 9, 2006 12:18 am

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