Nice report, Michael. I did Hood over Memorial Day weekend via the old chute route and never felt the need to be roped up, even though we did so on the descent. It looks like the snow was quite a bit firmer for your trip though.
I would agree with your comments of placing protection when the snow is hard, but I would rarely consider roping up on slopes under 50 degrees on Colorado snow. CO snow is much different than the Pacific NW though. It is amazing that there aren't more accidents on Hood.
I share his priority on safety, but disagree with some of his conclusions.
When we do the Mazama route, we cross down low like he suggested--most of the time. If there were very few runnels from the cliffs above, then taking the high traverse would be prudent. As a picky point: Rock and ice fall create runnels as they slide. They don't normally create "avalanches" as he termed it.
As to recommending running belays:
As the top climber with a safe runout below on moderately steep hard snow slope, more than once I have simulated a leader fall tricking the climbers below. They arrested me fine. But, that doesn't mean on steeper snow it would always work--as history has shown it often doesn't work, WHEN THE TOP CLIMBER FALLS. But if it isn't the top climber that falls, then the likelihood of successful team arrest is much much higher.
So, the technique I use, that is much faster than a running belay, when conditions are very hard snow and a not so good runout is to have the top two climbers use two ice axes in self belay (normally in dagger position). That way they never are in a position of not having an axe in the snow. The likelihood of slipping is still there, but the likelihood of slipping and not catching yourself, since you have an axe in, are almost nil. On the descent things are a little different. The top two climbers normally face outward with two axes, but then they are not planting them all the time like on the way up, so things are not as safe. So, if conditions warrant it, they would descend facing into the mountain and back/down climb in self belay with two axes through the real exposed sections. I have done running belays and would seriously consider them for situations where there is a cliff or crevasses just below a very hard steep face, but that is not the case on the Mazama route.
Another concept we use for such conditions when there are no hidden crevasses is to shorten the rope length between climbers. The traditional 30-40 ft is too long and should the top climber fall unarrested results in the 60-80 slide before it jerks on the next climber. Granted the extra rope gives more stretching which reduces the force on the next climber, but that is a small effect compared to the increased force from a longer fall. Therefore, we shorten the rope separation to 15-20 ft when there are not hidden crevasses. However, if we were doing running belays we would increase the separation back to 30-40 ft to accommodate not having to set anchors so frequently.
Also, from my experience with many running belays, with a rope team of 5 (he had 4), with some being inexperienced, doing a running belay will take more like 2 extra hours up the Mazama route. Speed is safety. Sun comes out softens ice and rock on the cliffs, increasing rock and icefall on the descent, etc. Also, if you are going that slow, it will result in the potential of more teams passing you and thus climbing above you and knocking down ice chunks or falling and taking your team right out.
Summary: Normally we would not do a running belay on the Mazama route, because I recommend another technique that offers sufficient safety, but a running belay is not out of the question should conditions warrant it.
FYI: The runout below the Mazama route is down into dirt and rocks (not cliffs or crevasses), so an unarrested slide is not eminently fatal.
shknbke - Jul 11, 2007 12:06 am - Voted 10/10
congratsNice report, Michael. I did Hood over Memorial Day weekend via the old chute route and never felt the need to be roped up, even though we did so on the descent. It looks like the snow was quite a bit firmer for your trip though.
I would agree with your comments of placing protection when the snow is hard, but I would rarely consider roping up on slopes under 50 degrees on Colorado snow. CO snow is much different than the Pacific NW though. It is amazing that there aren't more accidents on Hood.
Karl S - Mar 24, 2011 1:18 pm - Hasn't voted
Good concernsI share his priority on safety, but disagree with some of his conclusions.
When we do the Mazama route, we cross down low like he suggested--most of the time. If there were very few runnels from the cliffs above, then taking the high traverse would be prudent. As a picky point: Rock and ice fall create runnels as they slide. They don't normally create "avalanches" as he termed it.
As to recommending running belays:
As the top climber with a safe runout below on moderately steep hard snow slope, more than once I have simulated a leader fall tricking the climbers below. They arrested me fine. But, that doesn't mean on steeper snow it would always work--as history has shown it often doesn't work, WHEN THE TOP CLIMBER FALLS. But if it isn't the top climber that falls, then the likelihood of successful team arrest is much much higher.
So, the technique I use, that is much faster than a running belay, when conditions are very hard snow and a not so good runout is to have the top two climbers use two ice axes in self belay (normally in dagger position). That way they never are in a position of not having an axe in the snow. The likelihood of slipping is still there, but the likelihood of slipping and not catching yourself, since you have an axe in, are almost nil. On the descent things are a little different. The top two climbers normally face outward with two axes, but then they are not planting them all the time like on the way up, so things are not as safe. So, if conditions warrant it, they would descend facing into the mountain and back/down climb in self belay with two axes through the real exposed sections. I have done running belays and would seriously consider them for situations where there is a cliff or crevasses just below a very hard steep face, but that is not the case on the Mazama route.
Another concept we use for such conditions when there are no hidden crevasses is to shorten the rope length between climbers. The traditional 30-40 ft is too long and should the top climber fall unarrested results in the 60-80 slide before it jerks on the next climber. Granted the extra rope gives more stretching which reduces the force on the next climber, but that is a small effect compared to the increased force from a longer fall. Therefore, we shorten the rope separation to 15-20 ft when there are not hidden crevasses. However, if we were doing running belays we would increase the separation back to 30-40 ft to accommodate not having to set anchors so frequently.
Also, from my experience with many running belays, with a rope team of 5 (he had 4), with some being inexperienced, doing a running belay will take more like 2 extra hours up the Mazama route. Speed is safety. Sun comes out softens ice and rock on the cliffs, increasing rock and icefall on the descent, etc. Also, if you are going that slow, it will result in the potential of more teams passing you and thus climbing above you and knocking down ice chunks or falling and taking your team right out.
Summary: Normally we would not do a running belay on the Mazama route, because I recommend another technique that offers sufficient safety, but a running belay is not out of the question should conditions warrant it.
FYI: The runout below the Mazama route is down into dirt and rocks (not cliffs or crevasses), so an unarrested slide is not eminently fatal.