This is a marvelous page! My one complaint is equating UK Scramble Grade 1/UIAA I with YDS 5.0. These grades equate to YDS class 3.
The source of this misconception is an old, misinformed UIAA comparison chart that says YDS 3 and 4 are walking grades. I despair of talking any of my European friends out of this until they come over here, get on one or two of our class 3 or 4 routes, and say "oh." Having climbed and scrambled on both sides of the Atlantic, I can tell you that by the time you get to class 5 in the US, you are up to, say, some of the easier routes on your Idwal Slabs--which, although not difficult, are not in UK Scramble Grade 1 and are in a different category from the route you're describing here.
Anyway, that's my two cents--if you're not sure you believe me, you could just take off the YDS rating and leave it with a UK scramble grade for others to interpret. Again, fabulous page--I may be up in the Lakes next year, and this adds a new route to my itinerary!
Thanks very much Chris!
Unlike you I have not rock-climbed on both sides of the pond, so I can only defer to your superior knowledge - and appreciate the correction, which makes good sense. I have changed to YDS Class 3. Yes, the easiest Idwal Slab routes are around 'Difficult'... and in UK scrambling terms that would potentially slightly overlap with Grade 3, certainly Grade 3'S' or as I have now seen it referenced as Grade 4 (and that would equate to US 5.0?)
I do hope you make it over to the Lakes next year. The mountains will be tiny compared to what you are used to, but they have a charm of their own.
Best wishes, Mark
Ah, the UK mountains that I've been in are fantastic. My mother was English and always told me the Lakes were the best part of England ... but she never took me there! So I need to rectify that.
To paraphrase mvs and Fred Spicker (Handy Alpine Grade Facts), I think there are real differences in the application of the UIAA system within Europe. I believe these differences are actually largest with the lowest grades. I've written about it before on some SP's Tatra pages, e.g. here. I haven't been to America, but I often read, e.g here that "An indicator of class 3 is that most people can downclimb it facing outward." So, looking at the photos of the crux, I guess that'll be Class 4 rather than Class 3.
Hello again Jacek and thanks again for your feedback. I have studied your information and saved the links for future reference. I have accordingly slightly altered the overall grades, but added also a new sub-section on grade in the 'Overview'. I have personal experience of UIAA (and UK naturally) but thanks to you and Chris, I now feel I have the beginnings of an understanding of the US/Yosemite system - so thanks again to both of you!
Just been to the Lakes. Could not do Pavey Ark due to weather, but from other routes done it seems that UK scramble grade 1 is YDS class 2-3 (with some routes, like Hall's Fell, definitely in the class 2 realm). UK scramble grade 2 is solid YDS class 3, but perhaps lapping into class 4. From just eyeballing Pavey Ark, I think my North American brethren should go into it expecting some 4th class in the upper part of the route.
chugach mtn boy - Jun 4, 2017 7:32 pm - Voted 10/10
Not YDS Class 5This is a marvelous page! My one complaint is equating UK Scramble Grade 1/UIAA I with YDS 5.0. These grades equate to YDS class 3.
The source of this misconception is an old, misinformed UIAA comparison chart that says YDS 3 and 4 are walking grades. I despair of talking any of my European friends out of this until they come over here, get on one or two of our class 3 or 4 routes, and say "oh." Having climbed and scrambled on both sides of the Atlantic, I can tell you that by the time you get to class 5 in the US, you are up to, say, some of the easier routes on your Idwal Slabs--which, although not difficult, are not in UK Scramble Grade 1 and are in a different category from the route you're describing here.
Anyway, that's my two cents--if you're not sure you believe me, you could just take off the YDS rating and leave it with a UK scramble grade for others to interpret. Again, fabulous page--I may be up in the Lakes next year, and this adds a new route to my itinerary!
Cheers,
Chris
markhallam - Jun 5, 2017 1:53 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Not YDS Class 5Thanks very much Chris!
Unlike you I have not rock-climbed on both sides of the pond, so I can only defer to your superior knowledge - and appreciate the correction, which makes good sense. I have changed to YDS Class 3. Yes, the easiest Idwal Slab routes are around 'Difficult'... and in UK scrambling terms that would potentially slightly overlap with Grade 3, certainly Grade 3'S' or as I have now seen it referenced as Grade 4 (and that would equate to US 5.0?)
I do hope you make it over to the Lakes next year. The mountains will be tiny compared to what you are used to, but they have a charm of their own.
Best wishes, Mark
chugach mtn boy - Jun 5, 2017 4:20 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Not YDS Class 5Ah, the UK mountains that I've been in are fantastic. My mother was English and always told me the Lakes were the best part of England ... but she never took me there! So I need to rectify that.
yatsek - Jul 3, 2017 6:07 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Not YDS Class 5To paraphrase mvs and Fred Spicker (Handy Alpine Grade Facts), I think there are real differences in the application of the UIAA system within Europe. I believe these differences are actually largest with the lowest grades. I've written about it before on some SP's Tatra pages, e.g. here. I haven't been to America, but I often read, e.g here that "An indicator of class 3 is that most people can downclimb it facing outward." So, looking at the photos of the crux, I guess that'll be Class 4 rather than Class 3.
Best wishes,
Jacek
markhallam - Jul 8, 2017 12:52 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Not YDS Class 5Hello again Jacek and thanks again for your feedback. I have studied your information and saved the links for future reference. I have accordingly slightly altered the overall grades, but added also a new sub-section on grade in the 'Overview'. I have personal experience of UIAA (and UK naturally) but thanks to you and Chris, I now feel I have the beginnings of an understanding of the US/Yosemite system - so thanks again to both of you!
yatsek - Jul 9, 2017 3:43 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Not YDS Class 5No problem, Mark. The sub-section on grade is so comprehensive, worth much more than a mere number. Thanks!
chugach mtn boy - Sep 19, 2018 7:54 am - Voted 10/10
YDS translation, updateJust been to the Lakes. Could not do Pavey Ark due to weather, but from other routes done it seems that UK scramble grade 1 is YDS class 2-3 (with some routes, like Hall's Fell, definitely in the class 2 realm). UK scramble grade 2 is solid YDS class 3, but perhaps lapping into class 4. From just eyeballing Pavey Ark, I think my North American brethren should go into it expecting some 4th class in the upper part of the route.