What boots for ice/14ers?

[Autoxfil]

I have Invernos with Intuition liners for really cold stuff, and I've been using them with decent success on vertical ice and winter hiking. With Hood, Rainier, and harder ice on my list I'm lookin for a lighter boot to complement the plastic doubles.

I am looking for a great fit, and the features and construction just need to be close to what I need. I'm not doing WI5+ or hard mixed stuff, and I'm not doing a ton of 14ers either, so they will see mostly moderate vertical ice and some alpine in the Adirondacks, Catskills, and Whites. Warmth is key, as is enough ankle and sole flex for long approaches - I can make up for the softer sole on ice with stiff crampons. MUST have toe and heel bails. I like light weight as well, of course.

My list that I am looking at so far. Anything else I need to try on?

LS Trango Extreme Evo Light
LS Trango Prime
Kayland M11+

[Autoxfil]

I can't glean much from Scarpa's site. Is there a better source for info on their boots?

I'm looking for something with a 3/4 shank, well-insulated, full-auto compatible. The M11+ and T-Prime both are great on paper, but the fit is going to take a little working-over. If there are other boots on the market I would like to try them on and see how they fit. Can anyone thing of one I'm missing? It looks like Scarpa only makes full-shanks in boots with toe rands, but I can't tell for sure.

[Pivvay]

The Trango Extreme Evo Lights are not "warm". They are warm enough provided you can MOVE in them. I've been climbing in them all winter. CO 14ers, hikes and technical, up to WI5 blah blah blah. If I have to stand around belaying for a long time my toes start to get cold. If it was a really cold day and I was belaying they would NOT be warm enough.

However when paired with a set of doubles (Spantik or something) I think I would be happy for most conditions I deal with from running up spring couloirs to slower moving climbing at altitude.

[Mark Straub]

I love Kayland. They fit me like nothing else does. Do what fits for sure. EVO boots are super popular.

-Mark

[brenta]

As Pivvay says, the Trangos, while good for ice climbing and more, are not the warmest boots around. If warmth is very important, look at the Nepals or the Baturas.

All three boots you listed are stiff-soled--for a good reason.

Other (stiff-soled) boots you may want to research:

Asolo Cholatse GV
AKU Spider Kevlar GTX
Scarpa Freney XT GTX
Lowa Vertical GTX
Vaque M-Possible

[builttospill]

Could also maybe consider the La Sportiva K4S. If money is an issue, you could probably find them cheap somewhere, as they were clearancing them last year or the year before.

I've used them for lots of water ice and a couple of climbs in the mountains, including one in Colorado to around 14K on ice (Dreamweaver on Mt. Meeker).

They're sort of a beefier Nepal I think....a bit warmer I think. Just something else to try on, but the Nepal is probably better all-around.

[bird]

Could also maybe consider the La Sportiva K4S. If money is an issue, you could probably find them cheap somewhere, as they were clearancing them last year or the year before.

I've used them for lots of water ice and a couple of climbs in the mountains, including one in Colorado to around 14K on ice (Dreamweaver on Mt. Meeker).

They're sort of a beefier Nepal I think....a bit warmer I think. Just something else to try on, but the Nepal is probably better all-around.

I have the K4S and use them as my cold weather Ice boot. They climb very well and are plenty warm. They are more insulated then the Nepal's.
For one "do it all" boot, the Nepals seem to be the choice.

[Autoxfil]

All three boots you listed are stiff-soled--for a good reason.

I wore all three, and the M11+ and Trango Prime were not fully rigid soles - there was plenty of toe flex and a 3/4 shank. The Extreme Light is rigid, which is why I was shying away from that. Oh, I'm also not a big Gore Tex guy. I like the 100% waterproof non-breathable T-Prime since I don't sweat much on my feet.

Why is rigid so key? For ice? I was under the impression that a box-frame crampon will let a pretty soft sole climb ice well. And soft is relative - these are still pretty stiff boots, they just aren't totally solid.

Since I already have and love the Invernos for cold days and big mountains, I was thinking the Nepal, while the standard ice boot around here, would be too heavy/stiff and leave me wanting yet another boot.

My Invernos are for cold local ice (below 10F or so), New Hampshire climbing, Rainier, and any other trip where I will be on snow/ice for multiple days and want liners to put in my sleeping bag.

I would like to use these new boots for warmer NE WI days, Hood, and lots of backcountry one and two day climbs in the ADKs and Catskills during winter, where plastics are just heavy and clunky to walk in for so long. I am sure they will also see use on future trips in the Tetons and Wind Rivers (yet unplanned) when my Asolo Fugitive hiking boots won't cut it.

[builttospill]

Most of the people I know that have the Nepals are happy with the way they hike....they're not backpacking boots, but they get the job done.

Bird....good to know someone else has them. I've been pretty happy and always warm. They ARE overkill in the spring, but better than having cold feet I suppose.

[brenta]

Autoxfil, I've owned a pair of Trango Extreme S (before the GTX version was made). As you say they are stiff, but they hike well. Mine fell apart after three years. Unless they improved the construction, they are not the most durable boots. I had green Superfeet in them to improve heel lock; they improved comfort too.

I've tried the Kaylands M11 on--only long enough to realize they didn't fit my feet. My recollection is that the sole was stiff. Of course, my recollection may be wrong, but Kayland itself says they are at the top of their range in terms of rigidity:

http://us.kayland.com/details.php?id=31

As for the Trango Prime, I have not tried them, but they have a similar construction to the Extreme:

http://sportiva.com/pop.php?p=/images/s ... LT_336.jpg

http://sportiva.com/pop.php?p=/images/s ... me_600.jpg

There are three main reasons why rigid soles are good for step-in crampons:

1. Safety: The stiffer the sole, the more snugly the crampon's toe bail sits on the boot's welt. A flexible boot may flex out of the binding. Even if one doesn't drop the crampon, one's ability to climb may be compromised.

2. Comfort: A flexible boot would have to be cinched tight, possibly impeding circulation in one's feet. Poor circulation quickly leads to cold feet.

3. Efficiency: A solid connection between boot and crampon allows efficient transfer of momentum from the climber's leg and boot to the ice. One gets more powerful and precise kicks. The front points penetrate better, displacing less ice.

[bdynkin]

Could also maybe consider the La Sportiva K4S. If money is an issue, you could probably find them cheap somewhere, as they were clearancing them last year or the year before.

Here is another vote for K4S. I've been climbing with these for probably 4-5 years and I'm actually quite happy - hike very well, are plenty warm, climb well. Cons? Let me think... The front groove for crampons is a little shallow so you need to be careful when donning the crampons. The boot's volume is probably a bit higher (due to thick plastic uppers) compared to a typical modern leather boot so not sure if they are ideal for acrobatic movements on M12 terrain.

If $$ is not a big deal I suggest

[Autoxfil]

First off - I may have been wrong about the sole flex on the M11 and Trango Prime. I swear they felt flexy, but I think it was just the good ankle design.

I ordered some Raichle 80 Degree boots off Sierra 'cuz they were $160 and they have a great return policy. Reading reviews I was pretty convinced I was going to return them - I almost didn't open the box. But, I tried them on - they slipped on like a glove, they are just perfect for my normal-width, very skinny foot. Way better than the LaSportivas, and even better than the Kaylands which I thought were so great.

I still have some wearing to make sure they're going to work, but I'm feeling very confident. I don't typically have any trouble spots if I buy boots that feel good on the initial fit.

They weigh 4lb 11oz for the pair - better than Nepals, but at least half a lb more than the newer boots I've been looking at. The new Mammut Mamook might fit as well as these, and they only weigh 3.5lb in my size - but they probably aren't as warm, and cost more than 2x as much. Assuming these fit, I'm set!

Thanks for the advice, all.

[MRoyer4]

I got the 80 degree of STP in December. My feet have been very happy in all conditions this ice season. Toes have never been cold down to single digits and never even a hint at a hot spot wearing them straight out of the box. Great on long approaches and climbing WI5. Highly recommended.

Only complaint is they take much longer to dry out (from sweat) than my old Asolo Cholatse's, probably because the 80 degree is Gore-Tex.