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A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby Vitaliy M. » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:24 am

BTW: A Solid "Basic" Anchor is a solid Anchor that should be applied in all instances, regardless grade or discipline. That my friend, is and has been my point.


Is there any difference between the anchor you would use on a grade VI big wall and on a grade III 5.8 you and your buddy are running up with minimal alpine rack? Come on! We all know that anchors are not always the same.
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby Kahuna » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:08 pm

IMO, the basic foundation of any anchor is applied to all facets of climbing, regardless of situ. A two (multi-pitch Sport Route that contains two solid Bolted Anchors at each stance) or three point Power Point should be applied in all. I personally make a point to always utilize a "Direct Belay" when bringing up the Second. Regardless of their ability and discipline. It allows for a more efficient "Hands Off" tie off in the case of an incident that results in having to initiate a Self Rescue/Tie Off of your partner. I make an even more point to do this on any Backcountry "Alpine" route. This of course comes from my Guiding background/requirements and more importantly, from my experience with potentially more hazardous environments (rock/ice falls etc) and climbing/instructing with a lesser able Second that is pushing their envelope and possibly taking falls on their ascent. It is also very efficient application when having to lower then tie off an injured partner or ones "Pig", on a multi-pitch route.

I utilize a Slider PP in most cases with an 18mm X 120CM Sling as my Cordelette. The only difference that I make on any "aid/Wall" application, is I will incorporate an overhand Figure 8 to the PP and utilize two Lockers.

Reason: On most Grade V+ Wall applications, the lead line is generally always "tied off" and "fixed" and the Second then jugs and cleans the pitch while you set up and initiate the hauling process. This applies to Aid Soloing instances as well.
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby TimB » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:55 pm

A5RP wrote:It is critical that the cordelette anchor be built correctly when utilizing the "Direct Belay" when bringing up the Second. It indeed takes the direct force of any Second's fall.
Image
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Correct Alois?

That too was part of the whipper point. But......



Nice pics. Helpful!
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby AlexeyD » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:05 pm

While we're on the subject - does anyone have any experience with the "equalette" method suggested in the new edition of John Long's Climbing Anchors?
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby asmrz » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:49 pm

Rick, I don't guide, never have, never will. My partners are not clients, I don't need to safeguard myself from any of my seconds. Guiding is totally different animal, one that I have no interest in, nor appreciation of. I don't need to aggresively advertise my services on any public forum either. Enough said.
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby Kahuna » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:08 pm

asmrz wrote:Rick, I don't guide, never have, never will. My partners are not clients, I don't need to safeguard myself from any of my seconds. Guiding is totally different animal, one that I have no interest in, nor appreciation of. I don't need to aggresively advertise my services on any public forum either. Enough said.



Thanks for the kind word Alois.... Interestingly a total mis-perception you continue to have Alois. Typical.

Had you read the posts, you would have seen that I am advertising a safe proactive stance in anchor building as well as belaying in all situations. BTW, Hip belays Alois are a thing of the past.

Appears that you have never had to lower a regular (NON CLIENT) partner on a regular trad/alpine muti-pitch route after getting nailed by rockfall or suffering an injury while on lead etc. Being always prepared for self rescue is critical to survival in the BC when pushing bold FA's or stout stiff high graded trad routes. To even consider and condone anything less, is naive at best.

Unlike you Alois, I make a point to proactively SAFE GUARD myself and anyone that ties into a rope with me, regardless whom that may be, on each and every climb I partake in. All my self-rescue scenarios (5) have been with my regular climbing partners and not one client. They were from environmental incidents (3 from Rock and Ice Fall while following) and (2) lead fall injury, that curtailed the climb and necessitated lowering them, safely, to the deck. Utilizing a Direct Belay on a regular basis allows me to be prepared for such event when it occurs.

For someone of your stature to not understand this proactive safety protocol mindset for all climbing situ's, is alarming at best. Again, maybe you have been fortunate in your climbing history to not have any ill fated event occur that entailed getting yourself and your partner down safely while your injured partner was incapacitated or unable to assist in the procedure.

Had you in fact ever had to do so, you most assuredly would not have produced such a demeaning and unnecessary disrespectful response.

Talk about misdirected chest beating....whatever Alois.
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby asmrz » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:57 pm

Not worth responding.
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby Kahuna » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:13 pm

asmrz wrote:Not worth responding.


Damn it Alois, just sprayed my sandwich all over the screen...
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby TimB » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:54 pm

Rick,
I appreciate your photos and participation in this thread!
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby norco17 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:20 pm

Tim
I think what most people are saying here is that there are a lot of different systems that wok fine, and they all have their advantages.

I think A5RP's main point is that whatever system you choose should be solid and YOU should be able to start a self rescue at anytime from that system. You need to be able to get you and your partner to the ground at anytime safely whether you or they are on lead. Accidents happen and keep that in mind when selecting an anchor system. Do not be a lemming. Know why you choose a particular type of setup or piece of gear and know why it works and how to maximize its uses. Always carry the extra gear needed to get you and your partner to the ground.

http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/articles/p ... chors3.pdf
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Re: A couple of cordelette questions from a NOOB.

Postby TimB » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:29 pm

norco,
great advice and I appreciate your input.

BTW, that looks like a very good article from that link of yours. Thank you!!
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