What is the lowest rated trip report to ever occupy the front page. I think Ship Rock might have the new record.

Something to hold your head up high and be proud of.... right Franky?

"The greatest SP tale of lies and deceit for nothing more than selfish reasons."

Eh, i'm proud of that trip and don't really have any problems with that trip report. Have you noticed that it isn't even the first Ship Rock trip report on this website?

Selfish and totally disrespectful...

Edited for clarity.

The Chief wrote:Just because others break the law, in no way is a valid justification for yours or anyone elses reason for that matter, to do the same.

What The Chief is trying to say is you and your partner are a couple of dope smoking, traffic law violating, tresspassing punks. No other climbers would stoop to such scofflawery.

No, what the Chief is saying is, if you are gonna do it, do so quietly and not openly spray your misdeeds to the world.

And by all means, show some respect to the people and the land on which you trespassed on to do so.

A concept, ideal and fundamental ethic that clearly holds no place in today's entitled generation. Where the actions and behaviors of these certain individuals will indeed and have, affected the entire access for the climbing community as a whole.

Being a northern arizona climber, I have to side with Rick (the Chief) with this one. What purpose does it serve you or the climbing community in general to spray about trespassing on Navajo land. If there ever is hope in the future to have any meaningful dialogue with the community, posts like this doesn't do any good.

Sort of like the stupidity of writing (and publishing) an article about illegally bolted routes in Red Rocks. In that case it makes us look like idiots among land managers.

ACCESS is the responsibility of the entire climbing community. Respecting the closures that are in effect is an essential component of any opportunity for those individuals that are active in the arena and fighting to open those closures up to all of us.

Publicly spraying activities that outright tell the landowners to FO, set those very valiant individuals and their dedicated work, back months if even years.

As I posted on the TR, this type of flaunting behavior is BAD JUJU and a very big black mark on all of us as a community.

I for one do not nor will I ever condone this type of disrespectful behavior by anyone and then calls it climbing.

in addition to what The Chief said, who's running the front page here at SP now that Aaron is gone? some choices (like this one) have been questionable imho.

The Chief wrote:No, what the Chief is saying is, if you are gonna do it, do so quietly and not openly spray your misdeeds to the world.

And by all means, show some respect to the people and the land on which you trespassed on to do so.

A concept, ideal and fundamental ethic that clearly holds no place in today's entitled generation. Where the actions and behaviors of these certain individuals will indeed and have, affected the entire access for the climbing community as a whole.

I completely agree with you on this one. Respect is a virtue that is lost by so many nowadays. Many people act in utterly selfish ways and trumpet it to the masses as if they "accomplished" something. Flaunting their act of disrespect and defiance is immature and ignorant and should not be tolerated.

The Chief wrote:No, what the Chief is saying is,

You are correct. That is what ExcitibleBoy is saying.

Selfish and totally disrespectful...

Edited for clarity.

Franky wrote:Eh, i'm proud of that trip and don't really have any problems with that trip report. Have you noticed that it isn't even the first Ship Rock trip report on this website?

I actually complained about the first one. The guy who wrote that TR felt pretty much like you did.

I've read reports by folks who got tribal permission, and said the tribe was actually friendly and supportive, and very happy they were asked first. That warm feeling may disappear when they read these reports.

When I lived in NM, we were very serious about respect for Amerind sites.

blah blah blah. You guys see it your way, I see it mine. Their ban on climbing doesn't reflect the will of the community. Their ban on climbing also has little integrity and can be violated at their whim, or for a few bucks. Also, they have no right in my mind to ban climbing at all. I respect their culture. That doesn't mean I have to listen to their climbing ban. Respect for someone doesn't mean following all orders even if they are crazy and given as an afterthought.