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about coordinates

Postby Gabriele Roth » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:18 pm

when creating an album (and sometimes for other kind of pages) I have to post the coordinates for every photo I attach ...
each new photo posted starts linked to a site in California
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Gangolf Haub » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:25 pm

gabriele wrote:when creating an album (and sometimes for other kind of pages) I have to post the coordinates for every photo I attach ...
each new photo posted starts linked to a site in California


I found that out by accident a while ago: when your page (album) already has coordinates and you post pictures - one click on the zoom scale of the google map copies the page coordinates to the input fields
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Gabriele Roth » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:39 pm

the creation of an album doesn't ask for coordinates and even if I create an album adding it to an existing page (area or mountain) the coordinates not always pass to the album and to the added photos : i.e.
today I made a new album in Lepontine Alps :
1 - I started the Lepontine Alps page
2 - on the left I clikked on Add Album
3 - I entered the photos and for each one I had to put the coordinates ...
yes, I know, once posted the first I've copied into 2 variables the coordinates and then copied them in each new photo page ... but it is a little boring

a solution could be :
1 - create a Mountain page
2 - enter the coordinates
3 - save the page
4 - open the page and change it into Album page
....??? :D :D
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Day Hiker » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:47 pm

gabriele wrote:I entered the photos and for each one I had to put the coordinates ...
yes, I know, once posted the first I've copied into 2 variables the coordinates and then copied them in each new photo page ... but it is a little boring


But, unless you stood in one spot and just rotated, each one of the photos was taken from a different location. Image
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Gabriele Roth » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:07 pm

Day Hiker wrote:But, unless you stood in one spot and just rotated, each one of the photos was taken from a different location. Image

yes, after each hike I have the problem to medicate my right foot, the one where my wife enters a nail to keep me still while I take the photos and she reads the coordinates on GPS :D
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Re: about coordinates

Postby CSUMarmot » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:20 am

I have noticed that the coordinates that show up on the page are from where you put the marker on Google Maps, and are completely wrong
Now i have to make a note of the real coordinates in the overview section

BTW do any of you guys use UTM? I think of it like the metric system in that it actually makes sense and doesn't utilize such arbitrary minutes.seconds scale
Dammit kid get off mah lawn!!!
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Day Hiker » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:07 am

CSUMarmot wrote:BTW do any of you guys use UTM? I think of it like the metric system in that it actually makes sense and doesn't utilize such arbitrary minutes.seconds scale


On SP, the coordinates required in the lat/lon fields are decimal degrees; no minutes and seconds are involved.

But anyway, UTM is a system that breaks the Earth into SIXTY longitudinal zones (looking something like orange slices) and breaks each one of those into twenty latitudinal zones and then flattens each one of those spherical sections onto a two-dimensional grid. This creates distortion. Also, grid north does not match true geographic north, no sense whatsoever can be made at the boundaries between two zones, and geographic calculations like distance and bearing become mathematically ridiculous. And UTM coordinates do not even exist for areas around the Poles.

Using lat, lon, and elevation to define a point in space is essentially using a true spherical coordinate system. It covers the entire planet with one continuous system. North is north, there are no zones and boundaries, and geographic calculations can be derived by anyone with a basic understanding of trigonometry and vector algebra.

Again, in contrast, here is UTM:

There are 60 longitudinal projection zones numbered 1 to 60 starting at 180°W. Each of these zones is 6 degrees wide, apart from a few exceptions around Norway and Svalbard.
There are 20 latitudinal zones spanning the latitudes 80°S to 84°N and denoted by the letters C to X, ommitting the letter O. Each of these is 8 degrees south-north, apart from zone X which is 12 degrees south-north.
Areas are referenced by quoting the longitudinal zone number, followed by the latitudinal zone letter. For example, the southern end of South America is 19F.
Within each longitudinl zone the transverse mercator projection is used to give co-ordinates (eastings and northings) in metres.
For the eastings, the origin is defined as a point 500,000 metres west of the central meridian of each longitudinal zone, giving an easting of 500,000 metres at the central meridian.
For the northings in the northern hemisphere, the origin is defined as the equator.
For the northings in the southern hemisphere, the origin is defined as a point 10,000,000 metres south of the equator.
The co-ordinates thus derived define a location within a UTM projection zone either north or south of the equator, but because the same co-ordinate system is repeated for each zone and hemisphere, it is necessary to additionally state the UTM longitudinal zone and either the hemisphere or latitudinal zone to define the location uniquely world-wide.
Bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla.
Bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla. Bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla. Bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla, blabla, bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla.

http://www.dmap.co.uk/utmworld.htm

Yuck.
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Gabriele Roth » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:38 am

my problem (?) wasn't/isn't a matter of precision (that, when on the mountains, is absolutely a NOT must) but only regarding how to locate easily the site where (in the range of 1-2 km) each photo has been taken : if I take a photo on the Alps I would like not to have the default location on a California beach :D
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Re: about coordinates

Postby surgent » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:26 pm

CSUMarmot wrote:BTW do any of you guys use UTM? I think of it like the metric system in that it actually makes sense and doesn't utilize such arbitrary minutes.seconds scale


UTM is ideal for walking (micro-navigation). The grids are really just applicable to the localized area.

Lat-Long is ideal for macro-navigation (e.g. driving). As dayhiker pointed out, it's a more "complete" consistent world-wide system, whereas UTM is localized and not meant to be consistent worldwide. The degree-minutes-seconds makes good sense since 360 and 60 are highly divisible numbers, whereas 10 (and 100, 1000) are not.

Imagine those mirrored disco spheres. That's UTM.
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Re: about coordinates

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:35 pm

UTM makes most sense for people reading from paper maps in the field -- especially the maps with a UTM grid overlay. GPS, and the easy digital manipulations available with microprocessors, have muted the rush to UTM.

I hike near the border between two UTM zones. Neat things happen when you cross the border.
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Re: about coordinates

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:27 pm

surgent wrote:
CSUMarmot wrote:BTW do any of you guys use UTM? I think of it like the metric system in that it actually makes sense and doesn't utilize such arbitrary minutes.seconds scale


UTM is ideal for walking (micro-navigation). The grids are really just applicable to the localized area.

Lat-Long is ideal for macro-navigation (e.g. driving). As dayhiker pointed out, it's a more "complete" consistent world-wide system, whereas UTM is localized and not meant to be consistent worldwide. The degree-minutes-seconds makes good sense since 360 and 60 are highly divisible numbers, whereas 10 (and 100, 1000) are not.

Imagine those mirrored disco spheres. That's UTM.

Why is a highly divisible number better than just using decimals? Just something I have wondered about. I don't follow the reasoning for the whole minutes, seconds thing.
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Bruno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:36 pm

surgent wrote:The degree-minutes-seconds makes good sense since 360 and 60 are highly divisible numbers, whereas 10 (and 100, 1000) are not.

Exactly, that's why we should prefer the US customary units (inch, foot, gallon, ounce, pound, pint, teaspoon) to the internationally used metric system. For example, everybody knows empirically that to climb Denali (elevation in feet varying according to your foot size and whether you climb it barefoot or not), your backpack should have a volume of at least 16'230 teaspoons. By the way, a sledge is recommended to carry the teaspoons, while the other stuff can be accomodated in the backpack. :wink:

More seriously, a simple but useful upgrade would be to allow different lat/lon units while entering the coordinates. Not only for pictures, but also for mountains, ranges, etc. This would reduce the time-consuming conversion for the (few) members who care to systematically enter the coordinates for each of their submission.

Ideally, each member should be able to set his/her unit preferences in his/her profile, so that all pages appear with the desired units (including geographic coordinates and metric/US customary).
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Re: about coordinates

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:40 pm

I prefer sexagesimal because

1) my Sumerian heritage;
2) the name sounds so neat.
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Re: about coordinates

Postby Bruno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:42 pm

MoapaPk wrote:I hike near the border between two UTM zones. Neat things happen when you cross the border.

Are there border patrol preventing you to cross the border? Is UTM border crossing a major illegal immigration issue in the country where you live? :?:
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Re: about coordinates

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:47 pm

Bruno_Tibet wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:I hike near the border between two UTM zones. Neat things happen when you cross the border.

Are there border patrol preventing you to cross the border? Is UTM border crossing a major illegal immigration issue in the country where you live? :?:


Naw, I hike near the Nevada-Arizona border (when the weather is cool enough). I also cross a time zone, boy does that cause jet lag, but only in Nov 8-Mach 13.
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