So I want to slowly get into Ice/mixed climbing to be a well rounded climber. I'm not ready to have tools for everything though, and was wondering if there's a good axe out there that can be used on steep angled snow/ice and then also be used for a simple short top-rope ice climb. I was looking at the Petzl quarks and really like them. (I used them once before) and was wondering if they would be suitable for climbing steep snow. I want to continue mountaineering, but take more challenging steep routes (Not your general snow slug up a peak).

With the quarks, are you able to remove the pinkey guard and use that end to jam into the snow when traveling? Kind of like how you use a general mountaineering axe, just at a steeper level, then switching back to using the pick on steeper sections?

I am not knowledgeable about this subject at all, so any corrections, tips, and help is very welcomed!

The Petxl Quark is good for climbing snow, but it is on the specialized for steep ice..therefore is a bit heavy if you take on long alpine routes, that said, it is a very good tool to do a lot of things...
You may also want to check the new Cassin tools, either the X-Alp, see link: http://www.cassin.it/uk/scheda.asp?Codice=270

or the X-Ice see link:
http://www.cassin.it/uk/scheda.asp?Codice=189

They should be cheaper than the Quark...

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/ ... 0092M.html
The above might work.
It really depends what you are going to do more of. If you really want to get into ice climbing, the quarks are the way to go. If you may only do it once in long while and will be spending a lot of time on steep snow, then the aztarex would be better.

I'm kind of partial to Grivel and like their Alp Wings but they aren't made any more. Perhaps something like their Quantum Light? Nice smooth shaft for plunging in snow and a good all-round ice tool.

http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/ice_ ... ntum+Light

You sold me at

Brad Marshall wrote:Nice smooth shaft for plunging

Thanks for all your help everyone. I feel more educated!

I asked the same question:

http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48778

Basically: not so much. I ended up with last-generation Cobras and a Raven Pro, and it's a great combo. For a long snow climb, you need a comfy head, a long shaft, and a smooth self-arrest. Those are at odds with what makes a good ice tool - a short, curved shaft, thin, sticky picks, and a hammer or small adze.

You need two tools for steep ice, and they are going to run $150 each or more. A good axe can be had for $60. If you buy hybrid tools, you'll end up spending $300+, but instead of great ice climbing, you get lousy ice climbing.

I suggest the Grivel Air Tech Racing for a nice axe with a slight technical flair. If you're on a budget, the Black Diamond Raven is a great bargain and a really good axe for snow climbs.

For tools, I'd go with Nomics or other aggressive tools for pure waterfall ice. If you want to be able to do hard alpine climbs (Liberty Ridge type stuff), an alpine tool like the Vipers would be better, and give up very little on the steep ice.

I have the Quantum Light, and I love them for alpine climbing...
I did not suggest them because they are not the best for a beginner ice climber given that the handle even with the sliding grip is not the most comfortable.

That said...I led WI4 brittle ice this past winter with them, and it was good...but I am almost a WI5 leader at this point...and I would not have a beginner using them for the fist year on ice..

But if somebody is looking at them for alpine climbing....they rock!
Super light and still a perfect swing because the weight is all on the head...Climbing snow with them is a pleasure and I even did some M4 moves with them and it was totally fine..

It's very possible to climb WI5 and beyond with 'alpine' tools. I do it with Alp Wings (my only set of tools) regularly. I don't know if the new Quantum/Matrix light uses the same attachable hand rest, but if it does, they're a good bet.

Something like the Grivel Quatum/Matrix Tech (Quantum=CF, Matrix=metal, same tool) would probably fit the bill too. They are intended for WI, but the handle is less of a handle (compared to the Nomics, which IMO are only for cragging and not mountains). I've never really encountered snow conditions where plunging is necessary and a handle of that nature would prevent it. If the snow is too hard to plunge with a handle such as that on the Grivel tools, then you'll probably be using a different technique.

Bottom line though is go and try some tools at an ice fest, rent them, or bum them from a partner. As much as I get ribbed for not owning a pair of fancy WI tools, I am extremely comfortable with my Alp Wings on vertical ice. My swing has been built around them. I rationalize that much harder climbs were put up with straight-shaft tools before my day. I've used Quarks and find them extremely clunky/heavy/poorly weighted/poor sticks, but other people love them. Like boots, there is a fit for everyone.

Can't wait for ice season.

Thanks autofix for the link, I did a search but couldn't find that. Also, thanks again everyone who is helping, its good to see a large amount of ice climbers here on the East Coast. If anyone interested in showing a noob how it all works, I would be more than grateful! haha hint ** hint **

Hotoven wrote:Thanks autofix for the link, I did a search but couldn't find that. Also, thanks again everyone who is helping, its good to see a large amount of ice climbers here on the East Coast. If anyone interested in showing a noob how it all works, I would be more than grateful! haha hint ** hint **

Eastern Mountain Sports has a climbing school (http://www.emsclimb.com/) that does classes. They are at New Paltz, NY. They provide all of the equipment. Of course, it does cost money.

Buz Groshong wrote:

Hotoven wrote:Thanks autofix for the link, I did a search but couldn't find that. Also, thanks again everyone who is helping, its good to see a large amount of ice climbers here on the East Coast. If anyone interested in showing a noob how it all works, I would be more than grateful! haha hint ** hint **

Eastern Mountain Sports has a climbing school (http://www.emsclimb.com/) that does classes. They are at New Paltz, NY. They provide all of the equipment. Of course, it does cost money.

Yeah I almost took a class last year but had a friend take me out and teach me the basics for free. I might sign up for an intermediate Ice climbing class there this year if the money looks fine in my bank after I pay for school!

What are the general recommendations about the lenght of the ice tools for alpine/steep snow? I am 6'2" and using the 65 cm Ravel Pro. Looking to get BD Venoms. The latter comes in 50, 57 and 64. Should I go with 50 cm ones?

I would get the 64cm at your height for snow climbing.

I asked a very similar question here: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthr ... ool#UNREAD

Rinat, one way to look at the question, is to ask, what will you do with the Venoms? If the answer is technical mountaineering, especially lightweight but steep trips, then I would give you my 2 cents. Carrying adjustable trekking/ski poles and crampons, one can climb just about any slope, including glacier terrain up to about 35 degrees. When one is forced to switch to ice axe for one hand and (at times) a shortened ski pole for the other, you get by up to about 50 degree slopes. So one normally needs two ice tools only for terrain which exceeds 50 degrees or so. For me long tools do nothing well because when you really need them, they are too clumsy and long for the terrain. Extend you hand in front of you and look at the angle the end of your hand forms with your toes. Place a tool in that outstretched hand and point it down to the toes. The remaining angle is the best slope that tool will work in. Shorter is better for technical mountaineering...you don't need a tool for hill walking... BTW the Venoms are awesome tools, I have a pair of the 50 cm. I'm 6'1". 2BTW- Messner climbed the regular route on Everest with ski poles and crampons only (almost 30 years ago!)
Edit, spelling.