http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Mou ... 73089.html

RIP

This is an example of a true accident on a large mountain. The climbers were trained, prepared, experienced. It's a dangerous sport and sometimes shit just happens. Sad news.

The crew, he said, was descending on the second most popular route on the 14,411-foot mountain. Crevasses in that area can be more than 150 deep, O'Brien said.

Always be especially careful descending...

Very sads news. My condolences to his family and friends.

Always saddens me to hear this. Did the weather play a factor?

Bombchaser wrote:This is an example of a true accident on a large mountain. The climbers were trained, prepared, experienced. It's a dangerous sport and sometimes shit just happens. Sad news.

Where does it say the 3 survivors were trained, prepared and experienced? They were friends of the deceased from Texas. Every climber I know in Washington gets 2 or 3 requests like this a year to take novices up.

ericwillhite wrote:

Bombchaser wrote:This is an example of a true accident on a large mountain. The climbers were trained, prepared, experienced. It's a dangerous sport and sometimes shit just happens. Sad news.

Where does it say the 3 survivors were trained, prepared and experienced? They were friends of the deceased from Texas. Every climber I know in Washington gets 2 or 3 requests like this a year to take novices up.

Someone from TX tripped, couldn't self arrest, resulting in the death of one of his rope mates because they were roped up on steep terrain without pro? Surprising news indeed. Bet he had plastic boots though.

Very sad news indeed. Condolences to his family and friends. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the survivors.

Seems to me that the quote in the article from the Park Spokesperson pretty much reflects the reality of a fall by a member of a rope team on Emmons Glacier. Experience and self arrest expertise cannot easily overcome the law of physics, especially on descent when it is the trailing climber who falls. Also, although the Emmons Glacier route is quite steep in some areas, it is usually climbed by rope teams without the use of pickets or other protection. Accidents happen.

twoshuzz wrote:

Gary Schenk wrote:

Dow Williams wrote:

ericwillhite wrote:
Where does it say the 3 survivors were trained, prepared and experienced? They were friends of the deceased from Texas. Every climber I know in Washington gets 2 or 3 requests like this a year to take novices up.

Someone from TX tripped, couldn't self arrest, resulting in the death of one of his rope mates because they were roped up on steep terrain without pro? Surprising news indeed. Bet he had plastic boots though.

This is the sort of post that gives us all a black eye.


Yepper,

It seems for some the rush to judge without knowledge of the facts is of greater personal value than an understanding of truth and use of simple, good taste.

RIP.

RIP to the accident victim and condolences to his friends and family. He sounds like a great guy.

I agree with Dow. I will never take novices up due to the fact that they have no clue what to expect. The three from Texas was a father with two sons. Always sad news, and condolences to the family, but we know what the risks are when climbing. Myself and other experienced climbers I know get requests to carry someone up a mountain, and I will only consider something like Adams south side for a beginner that wants altitude. But the main reason why I am replying to this post is because I always see positive comments to families (which is always nice), but once someone speaks the truth about the situation everyone gets butt hurt.

It is always depressing to read about these tragic accidents. I would like to raise the issue of how many people should be roped together in terms of safety? In this case there were 4 people roped together. I climbed Mt Rainier in 1999 with RMI and we were SIX people joined per rope. Is that a good number or is it worse when one or more climbers starts sliding?

I recall that about 7-8 years ago they had a terrible accident on Mt Hood in which a party of six climbers were unable to stop another party that came sliding from above. Everyone ended in a crevasse and there were several fatalities.

Is a party of 2-3 max safer in terms of glacier travel on steep slopes?

JanG

It is my opinion that way more folks die due to being roped up to each other vs die from a fall in a crevasse solo on these popular tourist mountains......I warn all the time of the false sense of security flatlanders and others get out of being roped up to their fellow man (and thus lack of interest training). Rock, snow or ice....if it is steep enough to fall, we either solo or place gear if roped. Now I am not some big safety dude preaching on how much everyone should be afraid to die. I am actually quite opposite and have soloed a ton of steep rock and glacier terrain in my years at it, but then I don't fear death as much as others....say some of those Grizzly haters....3 is the safest number on a roped team, 4 is a cluster, 2, you both have to be experts at crevasse rescue.

First off my condolances to the fallen climber's friend's and family.

Now, regarding the being roped issue. I would be scared to be attached to more than 1 or 2 climbers while descending steep slopes. The odds just start getting worse and worse. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

I was up there when this happened...very sad to lose a fellow member of the climbing community. The vultures "news helicopters" were all over the place while they were pulling the deceased out. I wish his family and friends all the comfort possible. I can't imagine how the teenager who caused the fall is feeling right now.

jschrock wrote:Analysis is one thing. Most of the comments on these boards provide nothing even approaching careful analysis. Instead...just one more poster beating their chest.

Not sure why I even bother.

This is a recurring theme – climber dies, posters immediately jump at the chance to show how much they know about climbing while “analyzing” the situation and pointing out the mistakes made. All in a post that starts with the report of the climber’s death -- always a sad event regardless of the situation, an event that deserves some degree of restraint.

Have a little respect for the fallen. You want to show how much you know about climbing, or what mistakes were made in a given situation? Wait a few days until the facts are known (I didn’t see any initial mention of whether these climbers were using, or not using, pro, nor did I see any description of the survivors’ level of expertise (but, Lee was very experienced and an instructor, and snow conditions were optimal)). Then, if you think there are lessons to be learned, start a separate thread about safe rope team practices.

There is no advantage to immediate armchair analysis, and a lot of disadvantages – as some of these posts illustrate.

Jumping to conclusions after an accident like this is not a good thing, but carefull discussion is good. It helps to keep others safer and point out possible things that went wrong. If the accident was caused by some sort of stupid action on the climbers part it should be pointed out and talked about. This accident appears to just be a feak accident that can occur while climbing. It is a dangerous sport in which the hazards can only be mitigated. It is a little different situation than some asshole climbing up in tennis shoes on technical terrain!

On another note, it is sort of a climbing rule that your not supposed to climb solo. I wonder how many people have died solo versus roped in a team? It would seem the odds are about the same either way? I do most of everything solo. It seems being roped together on very steep terrain only increases the chance of more people falling if one person goes down, unless that person can give early warning and others can get self arrested quickly.