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CLOSURES: GROTTO & CTP AREAS

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CLOSURES: GROTTO & CTP AREAS

Postby The Chief » Wed May 12, 2010 10:09 pm

Of ECHO CLIFFS in Malibu area.

Heed the CLOSURE!


http://www.nps.gov/samo/upload/PublicNo ... ch2010.PDF
Last edited by The Chief on Mon May 17, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby simonov » Wed May 12, 2010 11:17 pm

I hope that doesn't interfere with a planned hike on the Mishe Mokwa Trail to Sandstone Peak.
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Postby Clark_Griswold » Thu May 13, 2010 12:53 am

The Dude wrote:Whoa! I thought you were talkin' about Hef's mansion... phwew! :?

Long live the grotto... :wink:
I too, was deeply concerned.
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 1:00 am

Well, I recommend that folks stop blowing this shit off.

First it was Williamson Rock, then two weeks ago it was Christmas Tree Pass and then today, Echo Cliffs.

As it stands, if folks don't start thinking about what they do and how they behave towards the Land Mgers, whomever that may be, then these CLOSURES will indeed continue.

Don't be surprised if more of these CLOSURES start appearing at more Crags. The TOOL is just about had it and is not taking any more shit from anyone. They will find a reason to and will.... SHUT US DOWN!
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 3:06 am

I am not sure of the answer to all this as the dirty deeds are done and the local NPS LEO is not at all happy.

Get a hold of the locals down there.

I recommend PMing Guyzo and ask him. He has been very active there and has a better slant at how this can be approached.

Unfortunately, after speaking on the phone this afternoon with the local Rangers, they are not at all pleased at the attitudes that have prevailed since they tried to get a solution in place a month or so ago and were basically told to fk off. They also indicated that there were possibly more closures being considered and may in fact be placed throughout the entire Echo Cliffs Area.

Not a good situation at all especially after last weeks announcement regarding the Christmas Tree Pass closure. These are clear signs the the local and Federal Land Mgers are taking all these issues to heart and that they mean business.
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Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Thu May 13, 2010 5:22 am

...yep, seems like the Feds are breathing more heavily down our necks these days.

What do they have to lose, anyway? In closed-off areas, they don't have to babysit the public or risk lawsuits from the parents of clumsy climbers. They can just munch donuts instead.

In the San Gabriels, I've heard the USFS closed access to a massive area they deem "The Station Fire Burn Area," like over a hundred sq miles. Under threat of severe penalties, some prime hiking areas cannot be entered, though they are completely unburnt.

A 5000 dollar fine or a few years in Fudgepacker Federal Prison...a steep price to pay for an illicit walk in the woods!

~~steve
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Postby HandjamMasterC » Thu May 13, 2010 3:47 pm

What on earth could be worth climbing in Malibu? Go climb in Idylwild for Christ's sake!
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 4:21 pm

HandjamMasterC wrote:What on earth could be worth climbing in Malibu? Go climb in Idylwild for Christ's sake!

Exactly!

We said this exact same thing to ourselves back in the mid 70's when we watched some folks from the GPIW do some pin and stopper testing in this exact same area.

We sat quietly and watched this group place then weight pull on em in various places. We then watched em all RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP!
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 5:33 pm

Gary,

Spoke to the local LEO on the phone last week down there regarding X-Mas Tree.

Appears one of the main reasons for this entire deal is cuz there has been a very recent proliferation of bolting with power drills that are not authorized to be used there.

Comments on that claim please.


Very interesting to say the least when one does some research, contacts the local authorities and finds the rest of the story that is not publicized.
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 6:14 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:Old 1/4"ers have been replaced with 3/8", sometimes with power drills, mostly hand drilled.

Some locals have put up some new routes on the Aviator Wall, their method of drilling is unkown to me.

You could hardly call it "proliferation". But power drills should not be used in a wilderness area.


Gary,

To the LM's, verbage is simply verbage.

But the Wilderness Act is the law that they must uphold. It is their responsibility. PD's are a clear violation of the law in place.

Bottom line, things are being done, once again, without contacting the LM's, communicating with them and getting their blessings on method/manner of rebolting and if placing new routes/bolts is allowed.

That appears to be the LM's beef. And rightly so IMO.

*Communicate with the local LM's, build a good solid rapport, include them in the loop, get their blessing and things will work out for all involved
. This clearly was not the case here as it has been in many of the other CLOSURES throughout the United States in the past 20 or so years.

* This approach works. It hasn't failed me nor the others that I know and learned this mannerism from in the past 20 or so years, yet!
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 6:49 pm

Did anyone actually go into the Lake Mead NRA Ranger Station, converse with the local LEO's and get informed on the local bolting/FAing policy from them? And communicate your intentions with them?

Or, did you all do as many do out there, ASSUME that is was OK and went ahead and did the FA's/bolting?
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Postby fossana » Thu May 13, 2010 6:59 pm

redneck wrote:I hope that doesn't interfere with a planned hike on the Mishe Mokwa Trail to Sandstone Peak.


It shouldn't. The trails and rest of the climbing area were open as of last Sunday.
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 7:21 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:That cuts both ways. Nowhere on the Lake Mead NRA map does it indicate wilderness areas. Nowhere in the area of Christmas Tree Pass or Spirit Mountain is there an indication of any sort that you are entering a wilderness area. Not a single sign.


Gary...

According to this map which is readily accessible via the Lake Mead NPR NPS website, the area in question is clearly defined within the SPIRIT MOUNTAIN WILDERNESS as I see it.

http://www.nps.gov/lake/planyourvisit/u ... eSouth.pdf

I found it here...

http://www.nps.gov/lake/planyourvisit/m ... JUMP_64167

So your claim of not being informed as to the Wilderness Boundaries, well coming from an individual of your deep experience... I don't buy it.

Took me 10 minutes to find this map that has been in place for well over 13 years, does in fact and has clearly indicated all the designated Wilderness Areas since it's original draft and updated annually according to the phone call I just made.
Last edited by The Chief on Thu May 13, 2010 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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