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Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby tradmonkey » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:55 pm

estunum wrote:From just reading here every possible mention about ownership of sec 33, it is often said that is per public records. Where is this record? Can someone point me in the correct direction to get it? I'd be handy to carry with me just in case they want to get froggy. Also, it might save my ass from just relying on forum posts, who knows, maybe they now own more sections.


This is probably the most accessible resource: http://www3.tlma.co.riverside.ca.us/pa/rclis/

Section 33 is pretty well marked on the USGS topos (most I've seen anyway) and it's definitely possible to avoid the plot on a trip up snow creek. Know when you're on their land and when you're not. If they harass you on public land, let us know!

A couple of months ago, a Snow Creek local gathered up other interested climbers got the attention of the Access Fund and the Allied Climbers of San Diego. The three co-authored a letter to the DWA requesting that they cease the harassment of climbers and hikers passing by on public land. In return, we have promised to educate the public about Section 33 and how to avoid it, and encourage Leave No Trace practices including the use of 'wag bags' by those passing through the watershed.

Some time this fall, I expect to have a webpage up that details how to climb Snow Creek legally. I still have some research to do as the temps creep down to a tolerable level. I'll be sure to keep Summitpost up to speed.

Thanks,
Adam
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby estunum » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:06 pm

Yea, section 33 is clearly marked on topos, but only section 33. The reason I ask about the public record is to see if they have possibly acquired additional land. That web site didn't prove helpful, but thanks anyways!

My hometown is Indio, so perhaps I am gonna have to attend that monthly meeting and get it straight from them. Specially with what I ran across recently. I noticed that topo maps are always dated from the 80s, even 70s. I found a map of that area dated from 1996, and from what I can tell, both section 33 and 28 are theirs. There's actually other sections labeled as "corporate" I had never seen labeled either, but those aren't in question. So if I am looking at this correctly, the DWA is actually being kind to let people access that area for the PCT. Here's the map...

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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby tradmonkey » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:46 pm

Interesting! I could swear that just a month or two ago, all of those parcels that now indicate "owner names not available online" had specific owner name information for nearly all of them. Wonder what the deal is now. I don't recall specifically the ownership of section 28...

Adam
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby estunum » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:33 am

While neither has owner names, section 33 does have the mailing address "C/O CONTROLLER P O BOX 1710 PALM SPRINGS CA. 92263" which is the DWA's contact address. Nothing on 28, but on the topo map on my previous map it is labeled Corporate Boundary and has a dotted line around it just like 33.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby coldfoot » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:14 am

I don't know anything about this situation, but from looking at the topo map I think "Corporate Boundary" is to be read "Palm Springs Corporate Boundary," that is the edge of the incorporated municipality. I don't think "Corporate Boundary" is usually used to mean ownership by a corporation or private entity. So I wouldn't read too much into that. Topo maps aren't the official reference for land ownership, of course.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby tradmonkey » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:43 pm

I emailed the GIS contact for that web reference about owner names and got this back...

The publicly viewable online mapping application (RCLIS) no longer shows owner names. If you have GIS software (ArcGIS) you can download our data from here: http://www.rctlma.org/gis/content/data.aspx


I have ArcGIS and will see what I can do with it this weekend.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby ExcitableBoy » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:06 pm

coldfoot wrote:Topo maps aren't the official reference for land ownership, of course.


I have a friend that found that out the hard way. He put up what is considered the longest sport climb in N.A. (26 pitches) on a mountain, part of which is in a wilderness area. Using a United States Geological Survey Map for his reference, he put his route outside the wildnerness area using a gas powered drill. Turns out the map boundry was incorrect and he had inadvertently installed his route inside the wilderness boundry much to the hand wringing of Forest Service officals and the anti bolting crowd.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby surgent » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:16 pm

coldfoot wrote:I don't know anything about this situation, but from looking at the topo map I think "Corporate Boundary" is to be read "Palm Springs Corporate Boundary," that is the edge of the incorporated municipality. I don't think "Corporate Boundary" is usually used to mean ownership by a corporation or private entity. So I wouldn't read too much into that. Topo maps aren't the official reference for land ownership, of course.


This is correct. Corporate Boundary means city limits on the topo, but these can change often, too.

The BLM maps (1:100000 scale) are usually more detailed as to what's public and private, and updated a little more often than the USGS maps.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby KathyW » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:42 am

Knowing the ownership shown per "public record" does not tell you everything. Just because one entity pays the property taxes, it doesn't mean they are the entity who holds all the rights to the property.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby estunum » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:54 am

Perhaps this is what the DWA relies on. So many details are lost in paperwork from the city, county, the state, permits, wilderness, or whatever you want to add, that they can essentially make up their own rules for the area. Whenever I do go home, I do intend to do so in a time frame that I can sit in the meeting and ask questions. Of course I might get nothing more than their biased opinion, but at least whatever they say I can attach a source to it. Going off earlier posts on this thread, this damn sense of entitlement on both sides is what's causing the friction to begin with.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby tomd » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:26 am

Adam found out The DWA also leases section 28 from the San Bernardino National Forest, which is just north of section 33. This may be how they claim to have the right to eject people from there, not just section 33.
The lease is now up for renewal. (it expired in 1997 so anyone who has been ticketed on section 28 since then was falsely ticketed.)
We need a condition added to the new lease to allow hiker access.
Ideally the lease would also be conditional on allowing hiker access to section 33, up the isthmus between Falls creek and Snow creek and then over to Snow creek. this would generally keep people out of the drainages as much as possible to reduce impacts.
Hikers should hike thru, and not camp on those sections.
http://data.ecosystem-management.org/ne ... ject=37895

Desert Water Agency Permit Renewal - Special use management Developing Proposal
Est. Scoping Start 07/2014 Expected:09/2014 10/2014 Heidi Hoggan
909-382-2945
hhoggan@fs.fed.us
Description: DWA's current permit is expired. The water system (pipelines, reservoir, and access roads) serves the City of Palm Springs and the community of snow creek. Hydroelectric power generated. The permit needs to be renewed and updated.
Web Link: http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/nepa_project_ ... ject=37895

Comments are due by Aug 28, can email to Heidi Hoggan at hhoggan@fs.fed.us
click on Scoping letter to find out more how to comment.

old thread on this subj. dwa-illegally-harrasing-hikers-at-snow-creek-t52729-165.html
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:04 am

Section 33 sounds like Area 51 but with more attack dogs !!!!
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby MoapaPk » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:18 pm

http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=33.8752, ... 0.47&a=sma

Our local mountains have a fair amount of land "leased" from USFS, and it is treated much like private property -- with some bizarre exceptions (like the lessees must allow hunting on the land, with proper regard for public safety). The Las Vegas Ski and Snowboard area is "leased" from the USFS, but they have lots of permanent buildings, tows, etc. and they certainly restrict access during ski season. The Foxtail Canyon area is leased to the Girl Scouts for some very trivial fee; they can deny access to anyone wandering on "their" land. They have been very nice to me -- but the caretaker insists it is private land. A lot of homes in Kyle Canyon are built on leased land.
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Re: Desert Water Agency (DWA) property

Postby KathyW » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:54 am

TomD - Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at it and send my comments.

It's important for the agencies that manage our lands to hear from us. Sometimes it does feel like they are not listening, but that does not mean we should not keep trying to be heard.
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