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Feathered Dead Birds....

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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby kevin trieu » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:37 pm

jschrock wrote:Just in case y'all missed it...this guy Dow climbs a lot. And real hard too. He even climbs real hard a lot. He's also a hard alpine climber who climbs all the time ... and hard.

Just in case you missed it...or didn't get the memo or something.


but isn't it my right as a hard climber that climbs a lot, and all the time to shit on people? it is my god given right, dammit!
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby MoapaPk » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:07 pm

I come from a fairly warm clime, so perhaps this is a biased observation. But most of the climbers I see have a lot more money invested in their racks, versus their clothes. Dirt-baggers and nouveau riche both have similar goals about staying alive, and I doubt either group is inclined to scrimp on hardware. The dirt-baggers are possibly more likely to sleep in their cars versus motels, and more likely to liberate booty before it is ripe.

We have a pretty good SAR team out here, so folks are usually rescued rather quickly (well, sometimes it takes 5 years if the climber was solo). But shock, and hypothermia, set in rather quickly (even at 55F) when people get injured and stop moving, so it might be nice if more folks carried warm emergency items. It wouldn't take a fancy jacket, but people would be more likely to carry it if it didn't weigh much and packed up small (quite ironic, when people are will to carry 50lbs of gear, but that's the way it is).
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby bearbreeder » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:10 pm

FortMental wrote:What the hell is a "dead bird" anyway?


dead bird is this magical brand of gear ... it's a needed item to supplement your BMW, gucci loafers, downtown loft, etc ...

since it's worn by all types of sponsored athletes, wearing it yourself will elevate you to their level ...

never mind the fact that the materials are the same as any outdoor brand, and the quality the same ... and that its mostly made over there (land of the dim sum) these days ... just the mystique of the name will justify the price

oh .. and its GUARANTEED to pick up ski bunnies ;)

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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby MoapaPk » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:16 pm

FortMental wrote:What the hell is a "dead bird" anyway?


http://www.arcteryx.com/?EN

The emblem looks like the famous archaeopteryx fossil from the Solnhofen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby Dow Williams » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:16 pm

There you go Welle, good post, I knew you could discuss the subject at hand versus worrying about how many homes I might own....dude, the post is about why some of you guys get conned into paying $600 for a jacket or $1000 for a bag that, in my (and many others opinion who spend a lot of time in the field testing clothing systems in harsh elements) do not serve you well. Some of you are mislead that you can buy a bag or jacket that will save your life (one such guy stated same in this thread!). Learning how to properly dig a snow cave might save your life, but not some $1000 bag over a $200 bag made of the same friggin material. For $600, I guess you think you are buying a bomber jacket....but as already pointed out, that does not do anything for you but make you sweat more. Sweat kills. Keeping dry should be your utmost concern. Agreed that if you are not climbing hard, but more or less going at a steady hiking rate, it is not as much of an issue. But as you progress to more technical routes....layering becomes that much more critical. And if you are climbing a lot, worrying about putting a hole in your $600 pants or jacket should be the furtherest thing from your mind. It is marketing. It is hype. It is branding. There are many great brands out there, but dird bird is not one of them in my opinion.....their proud logo wearing customers remind me of the same folks who use to pay twice as much for the same Landrover model that had the exact same engine in it than the lessor priced model. The lower priced model, everyone concurred, was so much more durable when put to the test in west Africa. Yes, I always express my opinions openly and without sugar coating......and never worry about who is insensitive enough to think they were shit on personally. Some love it, some loath it. It is no act.

But, here is something real you can actually bite into versus making shit up about how many homes I own, how much I drink, etc...the junior high debate style several of you seem attached to.....my lovely wife asked what I was typing out yesterday afternoon...she knows my policy about climbing with someone covered in deadbird all to well....I told her and she chuckled as she pointed out that I had a dead bird shirt on!!!! Dude, I don't think I knew I even owned one.....it has been one of the most comfortable lay around the house shirts in my closet for years. I obviously don't pay much attention to my clothes, I looked down on my chest and sure enough, there is the dead bird. Now that is some funny shit if you ask me.

PS, I know someone gave me this shirt somewhere along the line!!!! I did not buy it.
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby lcarreau » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:25 pm

Goes against my Karma to wear ANYTHING resembling a dead bird, let alone the feathers from said bird. I'm also against climbing Ship Rock in my underwear.

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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby welle » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:47 pm

MoapaPk wrote:
FortMental wrote:What the hell is a "dead bird" anyway?


http://www.arcteryx.com/?EN

The emblem looks like the famous archaeopteryx fossil from the Solnhofen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx


It's also one of the portfolio brands of AmerSports, a holding company in distant Helsinki, where decisions are driven by bottom line.
Not to be confused with Feathered Friends, a family owned company that still manufactures their stuff in Seattle.
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby MoapaPk » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:12 pm

welle wrote:Not to be confused with Feathered Friends, a family owned company that still manufactures their stuff in Seattle.


I have a good friend, not particularly wealthy, who gets most alpine gear from Feathered Friends. Why? Well, when she went to Denali she was quite fit, but... about 110 lbs and slim. Fit and weight were important to her, and the extra expense was fairly trivial compared to the costs of taking 2 weeks off from work and getting to the mountain and back.

If anyone knows a brand of sticky rubber-soled shoes, made in the USA, please tell me; I'm serious. The closest I've found is NB trail runners.
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby aran » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:17 pm

This conversation is giving me a glimmer of hope. Can I get out this winter without spending hella money?

I'm back from a ten year hiatus from climbing and want to head up to the mountains, winter and summer, and feel f'ing overwhelmed by the price point of entry. I got no winter boots, crampons, axes, poles, rack, down. I do have a TNF Convert or whatever it's called someone gave me for my birthday, and a pair of Patagonia Guide pants, which means I'm a yuppie already and I barely came back. Got a 15 year old Lowe Alpine snowpeak that seems like it'll last 15 more years, but not the most comfortable thing.

If it's so easy to not be duped into spending useless money, some practical advice: what do I get? Somehow, asking my homie on the corner for his puffy coat for the weekend just doesn't seem like it will cut it, quality-wise. But any suggestions would be appreciated.

And I climb 5.10, bitches!!! (5.10a/b that is, but fuck it) So no hating! :-)
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby aran » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:18 pm

Oh, and 15 years ago I worked at Marmot Mountainworks and bought a great MH bag that still works great, and a SD 4 season tent that weighs 10 pounds a holds tight in all weather, so I'm good on that front.
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby bearbreeder » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:24 pm

feathered friends actually have one of the best down vs. weight ratios in the industry for jackets

the others that have this are western mountaineering, mec reflex and the new rab infinity

would i buy one? ... well depends on how good a deal you can get ... id likely go for the rab infinity or mec reflex on sale/clearance ... at least it aint a case of looking yuppie with FF or WM, and you help get those seattle pot addicts their next paycheck

as to their bags ... i much prefer to buy en-rated ones, those have measured values, you can often find cheapish high quality down fill bags for decent prices ... IMO ... those anal euros with their standards have done a great service to the consummer ... you can now confidently say that a lafuma bag 2/3 or less the price of a higher end bag is of similar warmth ...
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby zeroforhire » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:35 pm

welle wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:
FortMental wrote:What the hell is a "dead bird" anyway?


http://www.arcteryx.com/?EN

The emblem looks like the famous archaeopteryx fossil from the Solnhofen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx


It's also one of the portfolio brands of AmerSports, a holding company in distant Helsinki, where decisions are driven by bottom line.
Not to be confused with Feathered Friends, a family owned company that still manufactures their stuff in Seattle.


I'm not sure this is still entirely true... I heard rumor that FF has started making their clothing in Canada. Still trying to verify this.
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Re: Feathered Dead Birds....

Postby John Duffield » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Thank you Dow for getting another spirited discussion underway. My .02.

Not so many years ago, into my 40s/ 50s, I'd be out with my Army Sleeping Bag (not the body bag) and my Boy Scout Yucca Pack. But now I do own more than one house (a true mark of shame it seems) and I need light gear. An old fart like me, can't carry that heavy shit up the hill. I also run colder than years gone by and I need warmer. So yes, I do have an MH $800.00 sleeping Bag.

But I don't own any Dead Birds. Patagucci is my weapon of choice. However, I did sleep in my car at the TH Saturday night. So I dirtbag or pose as it suits the situation.

I don't need that crap for climbing, which is Dows point. I agree. I can climb in anything. But I do need that quality stuff for the nights. For the carry ups.
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