Has anyone gotten their rookers on a pair of Grivel North Machine Carbon? They look incredible. I've been cycling through ice tools trying to find a pair of leash less tools for alpine and waterfalls, currently using Quarks but I am not particularly happy with the weight (too light in head) and the hammer is not especially useful.

The Grivel NMC is about the same weight, but I am curious if more of the weight would be in the head because of the carbon shafts. Also the hammers look like they are more prominent so they may drive pitons better.

Would love to hear any feedback from folks who have used or at least handled these tools.

Not what you asked for, but I found the pick weights to add considerable quality to the swing of the Quarks, if you haven't already tried that. Agree on the hammer though...

Dave,

That is helpful. I actually ordered the head weights last week, then I saw these new Grivels. Thought they may be the holy grail of ice tools.

I got to try them today. I climbed what was supposed to be an alpine style climb in the Whites (NH), and so had a mix of trekking up snowy, rock- and tree-filled terrain, traveling over icy boulders, and climbing various single pitches of WI3. My thoughts are below. Caveat: my climbing experience is limited---I've only used Quarks and Nomics in technical terrain, though I've played around with other brands/models at stores---so take all the following with a grain of salt or two.

Pros
You are correct, EB, the heaviness is more in the head and as such they feel absolutely great to swing. Best feeling axe I've swung, and I played around with all the DMMs, Trangos, Cassins, Black Diamonds, that were on demo. Outside on ice, the NMC stuck in everything with ease, but to be fair that doesn't mean much since the ice today was slushy and took picks of all sorts with ease (even the first timers looked like Steve House out there today on that ice). Nevertheless, I really like how the NMC felt and the weighting was perfect for my swing.

To respond to your other concern, EB, the hammer is prominent and solid and feels like it would drive pitons in well, but I didn't drive any in so I can't verify this suspicion. Again, the weight being concentrated in the head would support the idea that the hammer would be efficient at driving.

Trekking around the mountain I used one of the Grivels for balance and general canne techniques. The hills was probably 30* pitch and at ~50cm it worked well. The little steel "nipple" on the bottom simulated the spike of a traditional mountaineering ax pretty well. At first glance, the spikes on top of the pick were cause for concern as I thought they'd be uncomfortable to grip or cause some sore spots or glove wear, but holding the head in arrest grip I didn't notice them at all.

Cons
For vertical ice, I still like my Nomics better because I've come to rely on the second pinky rest. The NMCs have a tiny nipple at the bulge, but it is not prominent enough to really weight down. As a result, with my Nomics I can grab the higher grip and pull down firmly, which keeps the pick in the ice with good purchase. I have more confidence pulling myself up on the higher grip on my Nomics than on the bulge of the NMCs because the full pinky rest allows me to pull down and reinforce the Nomic pick's purchase, while the NMC's bulge required me pull to down and back, which levered the tool up a bit and compromised the pick's purchase.

The second thing I didn't like was the smoothness of the carbon fiber shaft. As my gloves got wet they tended to slide down toward the bottom whenever I tried to grip the upper shaft for some reason, such as gripping up (as discussed above) or doing some funky grip on mixed terrain or weird ice shapes. However, I figure this issue might easily be solved with some kind of grip tape.

One minor thing was that the grip rest protruded out less than my Nomics, and so my hand was closer to the ice and consequently got colder faster. On the plus side, the smallness of the pinky rest on the NMCs made for easier plunging in the few instances I employed that technique.

Summary
Obviously, my cons compare the Nomics to the NMC, which I don't think are meant to be direct competitors. But since I have the most experience with my Nomics, that was my baseline for vertical ice. As I understand it, the NMCs would be for challenging alpine climbs, for which I suspect they'd be great. In the end, I really like the NMCs and am considering buying at least one (a hammer, to be paired with a mountaineering ax for mildly technical alpine routes), if not two (a hammer and adze, as a technical alpine set). For alpine, I think they'd be a great technical tool. And that swing feels so good.

That's my $0.02

Thanks for the review!

Follow-up: I spoke with the Grivel rep the following day and the other two sets of NMCs he had for demo actually had grip tape on them in the manner I discussed above. I guess it seems like a common mod that climbers request. Anyway, that issue is now officially solved. I'm currently looking for a set but there aren't many online, and those that I found come with the "mixed" pick not the "ice" pick, which I think I might prefer. I believe that both are T-rated though and the only difference I believe is that the mixed is thicker. But I couldn't confirm that on Grivel's spartan website.

Here is something interesting, the Tech Machine Carbon (Grivel's answer to the Nomic/Fusion, will accept the same pick and hammer and adze as the North Machine Carbon. That would give you an incredible fully leashless tool with actual functional hammer and adze. I wonder if adding the hammer and adze with mess with the swing of the Tech Machine.

The extra weight on the Tech Machine Carbon would be nice, IMO. I've led a couple routes up to WI5 on them and think a tiny bit of extra head weight would be nice. That said, due to the aggressively offset handle, an adze or hammer would be so awkward and hard to swing it wouldn't be worth it.

Same problem all similar tools (X-Dream, Nomic, Fusions, etc) suffer from.

brokesomeribs wrote:The extra weight on the Tech Machine Carbon would be nice, IMO. I've led a couple routes up to WI5 on them and think a tiny bit of extra head weight would be nice. That said, due to the aggressively offset handle, an adze or hammer would be so awkward and hard to swing it wouldn't be worth it.

Same problem all similar tools (X-Dream, Nomic, Fusions, etc) suffer from.

Thanks for the insight. I likes my pitons when winter mixed alpine climbing, but I would also like to join the 21st century and go leashless. My two prior attempts were with BD Vipers (hated them, sold them) and Petzl Quarks (was underwhelmed, sold them). Neither felt secure without leashes and both were difficult to drive pitons. Maybe the answer is old school: go with fully leashless tools like the Grivel Tech Machine, Petzl Nomic, etc, and carry a third hammer that actually drives pitons well or a small alpine hammer.

EB, just got my pair of these. So heads up, LM should have a few more but I'd jump on them quickly.

My two cents...you won't be disappointed. Grivel done good. Very good.

I decided to stick with my very excellent Charlet-Petzl Aztars for alpine climbing and go full on leash-less for waterfall ice with the Grivel Tech Machine, maybe carry them and a third hammer for hard alpine?. The carbon version is just about impossible to find and I found the aluminum version on sale for ridiculously cheap.

After ordering the north machine carbon as well to try it out in comparison to the quarks, i had to send it back: the shaft was too thin for my hands. I'm pretty tall with large hands, so this may only be a height-dependent phenomena.

The quarks have a thicker handle portion, so my fingers don't collide back with my palm when gripping it tightly, but they do collide with my palm on the north machine carbon.

Also, a point I didn't realize before from reviews: the spike is connected to plastic only, and isn't connected directly to the shaft through any metal/carbon under the plastic. Admittedly i don't know the failure point of the plastic and it may be very robust. But on the surface of it, i don't have full faith in the plastic connector at very low temps, as i do with the quarks' steel spike that is definitely solidly connected with the shaft.

The swing of the north machine carbon is very nice, though! Sad the handle isn't thicker.

Counterpoint (plug) for the NMC's. I find most XL gloves to be barely adequate and still have no issues with the grip size. Personal preference really. I tend to keep a fairly loose / open grip on the tools.

Nicest alpine specific tool I've ever swung fwiw.

Thanks for that other perspective:)
What have you found on the durability of the spike and plastic connector setion?

logsden wrote:Counterpoint (plug) for the NMC's. I find most XL gloves to be barely adequate and still have no issues with the grip size. Personal preference really. I tend to keep a fairly loose / open grip on the tools.

Nicest alpine specific tool I've ever swung fwiw.

Anecdotally, I've had no issues or concerns after a single season of use. The typical levels of Grivel quality and materials leave me feeling pretty warm and fuzzy.