I'm just curious if anyone else experienced this. Internally, I used to "burn really bright" with mountaineering topics. You know, in addition to the weekends, making special trips to see certain speakers, or evenings in the basement with crevasse rescue, or hanging from ice tools from a tree in the frozen backyard, etc.

But I just don't do that anymore. There are just so many more curious things that don't touch on climbing. I used to be a painful micro-manager of trips, with like, chart maps of low/high pressure over the range, 3 alternate destinations, 2 alternate partners, all kinds of rigamarole. Nowadays, I let my friends do the planning...I'm like..."cool! Sounds good!" The only thing I ask of myself is that I be in some semblance of decent shape.

I don't know right when that happened. I continued being very gung ho way past marriage and kids, disturbingly so depending on who you ask. :p It is a little sad to go away from that version of me that was ready to live in a crevasse for 6 months just to be slightly stronger but no amount of wistfulness can awaken my motivation to actually do anything about it.

Seems like now I like the whole context of a day, part of which is in the mountains. Before, I'd be excited about the 8 hours in the hills, and everything else was "the boring stuff." Now, it's great to go on a long hike, and anticipate dinner or playing with the kids or planning a lazy movie day for Sunday.

I used to think less of people like myself now. I would think "how can they claim to enjoy what they barely focus on, in depressingly reasonable increments? Why aren't they mounting a real effort?" Now I see that as tunnel vision, partly an admirable concentration that I wouldn't go back and change, but partly the result of only dimly perceiving forms beyond myself. So, good and bad. Maybe later I'll look back on the current phase with an equal mixture of pity and bemusement, who knows.

Anyway, I know it's a boring topic, but it crops up a lot for me, seemingly as central as wondering about Rebuffat traversing the Aiguilles or whether I should get new Nomic tools, and dang I've gotta go bouldering more. I guess here's to perspective and wisdom and experience and stuff (I'm even making myself yawn)
--Michael

For me, it's not so much less passion/more peace, it's more less passion/less peace; though I don't have kids or a family to whittle my days away with.
Through a series of unfortunate and very regrettable decisions over the last three years, I no longer have the income to justify trips. Because of these
'decisions,' I likewise no longer have the confidence or drive (passion) to head out into the hills. I often joke with myself that I write about mountains more
than I actually visit them, sadly, that's actually largely true.

Along the way, I also realized that I've made a huge error in regards to friends. And that is: climbing friends are nothing more than acquaintances. I've always looked
at partners as sources of continual friendships, people to go have a few pints with, call up for no other reason other than to inquire on life, their kids, perhaps go see The Hobbit etc.
In the last few years, these 'people' have all but disappeared. The closet of what I WOULD call my friends have all died. Learning that acquaintances ARE NOT your friends
was a hard pill to swallow. I've all but deleted my 14ers.com account for reasons such as this.

And that HAS sapped all my drive and motivation for wanting to get out. The things I do now, are nothing more then hikes. I don't consider myself a climber anymore.
So, I definitely hear what you're saying, but for me, the passion WAS the source of inner peace. Now, I'm trying to find a way out of this gloom and continue on. Though to be fair, I can't seem to shake the deaths of my two best buddies (Steve & Terry). And I know that's a HUGE hurdle with no easy answers.

I think there are two (or more) answers to your question. The first is that you've gained enough competence that that you don't concern yourself so much with the details; you are confident that they will work out. You are confident in your friends to work out details and know that if they get something wrong you can step in and fix it. The second answer is that you have gotten older - happens to all of us. Being more at peace generally comes with maturity and that reduces the drive of passion. Of course there is always the possibility that having enjoyed something for a long time has left it a bit boring.

Perhaps at some point, you subconsciously achieved what you had set out to achieve, not so much ticking peaks off a list, but something about yourself. You may not be able to pinpoint when it happened, but at some point, you proved to yourself you can do this, and be successful at it, and when that realization set in, you ratcheted the intensity down a little.

I am married but with no kids. Being married has forced me to reconsider my goals, and I cannot run off for weeks at a time, or on whims every weekend, like I used to. My wife is very supportive, and I don't want to abuse that support. I have zero regrets in scaling back my plans accordingly. The positives outweigh the negatives.

I got into mountain hiking and climbing because (a) I like hiking and climbing and (b) felt an urge to test myself against bigger, grander, more challenging peaks. I love traveling, love maps, love geography, and all of this fits neatly together within "mountaineering". I flew threw school, never really struggled at all in academics, but still felt this urgency to really test myself. I think this is a fundamental human yearning. It's what drives exploration.

But you cannot be as intense as you indicated all the time. You are bound to burn out. So you back off a little bit. Your life grows to include new tasks and obligations. It puts climbing into perspective.

I doubt you will ever stop climbing or hiking. The ebb and flow of the hobby is certain, so, go with it.

It's okay to have other hobbies besides mountain climbing.

Sometimes passion evolves into obsession, which evolves into "this isn't fun anymore." Some of us refocus gradually, on our own, back to what makes us happy and (physically/mentally) fit. Some people require a major health event to refocus.

Competition with yourself is great. But most folks have the subconscious intent of impressing other people, competing for a place in a list of achievements. That rarely brings lasting happiness. The list always gets longer, or there is always another list. There is always someone faster, stronger, better. I try to do things that give me a warm glow for the drive home, and for days afterwards... but it's hard not to fall into the trap of following lists made by other people. If that list is yours as well, great.

I think you have more inner peace than I do.

Really appreciate these posts. Especially you MoapaPk and surgent. I know you hear it all the time, "Can't see the forest for the trees," and I think that's exactly what's happening here, well, at least for myself.
I know this is a bunch of cotton-candy philosophical fluff, but it does matter. And reading your posts helps me to see things not necessarily in a different light, but perhaps from a different vantage (same light).
I don't want this inner angst to damage things with Sarah (Simon). So reading others' perspectives helps with trying to incorporate the changes and move into the next part of this journey.

It's easy to belittle these changes & frustrations but they ARE important. Thanks you guys. It's having serious responses such as these (and not bullshit drivel) that really makes me take an active stake in this community/this website.

surgent: I might be joining Sarah this spring for a week or so in Tucson (she'll stay longer). Let's get together for a few hikes/climbs and pints!

mvs wrote:I used to think less of people like myself now. I would think "how can they claim to enjoy what they barely focus on, in depressingly reasonable increments? Why aren't they mounting a real effort?"

It's strange, but these are the people I seek out - the ones who don't take it so damned serious. I have a full-time job, family, kids, pets, friends, hobbies, interests, etc... I've always tried to keep climbing/mountaineering in perspective --- it's just a hobby. A pastime. A release. It's just a small part of who I am. I think having balance in your life is the best way to go through your life. And when that balance becomes unbalanced, it becomes unmanageable... The better you are at something usually means that it came at the expense of something else --- like relatiosnhips, careers, kids, etc --- after all, we all have just 24 hours each day. I know a few very accomplished mountaineers who have no people skills, no real frineds or family because they spend all thier time alone and in the hills. Good on one hand, sad on the other.

As far as the passion, I think on some level, it will always be there. But I'm also passionate about other things like my family and friends and other interests (and in a very different way, my job). Maybe you've just substituted one passion for another? Not necessarilty less passion, just different passion. As Harlan, Scott and Buz point out --- it's a bit natural, part of the process of growing older, wiser, and more mature. Life is the process of going from "it's all about me" to "it's all about somebody else."

And Kiefer - Yes, climbers you meet on the internet are just acquaintances. There will always be a few "keepers" in there, but the majority of folks you meet on the internet are nutjobs. It's OK, just a fact of life. For the record, I always enjoyed having beers with you and talking about grandiose plans! And the 14erworld/CMC/14ers.com crew is one giant Colorado-homer clique with well established rules and regulations... play by the rules or be thrown out... I just left before I was thrown out...

You guys rock. I like the point from MoapaPk that there is a cycle to the thing...overindulgence, some degree of contempt and then longing for the old times of wonder. I definitely noticed that. Buz, it's true about the "confidence in your friends," I really enjoy just going with the flow now, trusting in my friends, not being fearfully invested. I can see them better. Surgent, it's true that I must have achieved some kind of baseline goal. I think it had to do with "competence" or "craftsmanship" in relation to the mountains. Basically to travel within/among the hills with respect and gratitude. Sakkinen, you've had a few rough times (I just read your story with the amazing cairn bivy!), but since you are focused on the right attitude and always questioning your responses I'm certain you'll find the way.

I've often thought about the expression that only a fool climbs Mount Fuji more than once. How wonderful to be a fool, really. To trod the same path, and feel the old delight welling up. A mountaineer never wants to do things the easy way, and in his purest state is completely lost in the journey rather than the goal. What I've seen is that this state is the "sacred" heart of the activity, and I'd rather go away from it than corrupt it. Attempting to force that state snuffs it out. It may be that those sitting some distance from the fire love it most.