Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Regional discussion and conditions reports for the Eastern US. Please post partners requests and trip plans in the Eastern US Climbing Partners section.
 

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby nartreb » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:51 pm

Turk, I think you've got the squelch turned a little too high on your sarcasm detector.
User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: online or in boston, Massachusetts, United States
Thanked: 111 times in 90 posts

The following user would like to thank nartreb for this post
John Duffield, kakakiw

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby Turk397 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:14 pm

KristoriaBlack wrote: Seriously, STFU. You have no idea what happened out there and I am entitled to have whatever opinion I wish because I was there; and this was my trip.


You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. But when a SP'r died on Mt. Washington a few years ago doing a nighttime solo ascent because he got caught in a whiteout I'm just as entitled to my opinion as well--that saying people to deserve to die in that instance is a dick thing to say. I'm sure others that knew him on here think the same. What other "facts" am I missing to be able to say that? This is a forum, not your personal website.
Turk397

 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:24 am
Location: New York, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby kozman18 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:38 pm

It’s hard to understand the point of this thread. Kristoria started out by asking for navigation advice in white-out conditions. She attempted to climb in such conditions and turned back (or so I surmise form her posts). On a second attempt, apparently in much more benign conditions (at least according to the summit weather archives), she made the summit and returned. So far, so good.

But then her comment: Anyone stupid enough to attempt a solo, nighttime winter ascent of Washington deserves to die (her emphasis, not mine). As Turk points out -- really? Did she really make that comment given that she tried twice to summit alone, at night, in the winter? It is not a death wish to make such a hike (if properly prepared, good weather, etc.). And it certainly doesn’t warrant telling someone to STFU when they question the validity of such a statement.

And now, after one hike, she knows “from personal experience just how easy that is to screw up up there, and when you are alone, in the winter, with the entire night ahead of you, one mistake is all it takes to screw up and die of hypothermia.” My turn to say -- really? That was the exact advice being given by many in response to her original post (and is common knowledge for anyone who has travelled in the Whites).

So, I don’t get it. A solo hike of Washington in the winter is a cool thing to accomplish, but it certainly doesn’t create a new “death wish” standard for solo/winter/night time travel in the Whites, regardless of what the trip report might reveal.
User Avatar
kozman18

 
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:14 am
Location: Burlington, Vermont, United States
Thanked: 23 times in 17 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby rasgoat » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:44 pm

Ok so let me see if I got this straight. If I wanna climb Mt. Washington on New Years eve alone in the dark with very dark sunglasses on and a bottle of Dom like a Jedi training mission, I may die. But if I drink the Dom in whiteout conditions then I will receive special snow vision which will allow me to get back safe. Otherwise I may choose to turn around. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to open the bottle? is there a way I can use the Carbonated pressure of the cork to help dig a snow cave? Also can the bottle be safley used to glissade to the bottom, reducing the time it takes me to descend?
User Avatar
rasgoat

 
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:55 am
Location: Denver, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 7 times in 6 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby AlexeyD » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:55 pm

I've been watching this tread periodically, and it's unfortunate to see it degenerate to the level of nastiness that it has. I believe the original topic was about whether or not it's prudent to test one's orienteering/navigation skills in bad weather by actually going out in a whiteout above treeline. Most people seemed to disagree with OP's proposal that this is a good idea. Incidentally, I disagree as well, though I didn't chime in at the time simply because there wasn't much more for me to add on the subject. Evidently OP did not like the tone in which some of the responses to the original topic were delivered and, when describing her nighttime ascent, responded in kind. I do think some of the original replies could have been a little more civil (I can see how, taken as a whole, they could have given OP the sense of being picked on a little bit), but at the same time, one needs to distinguish form from content: just because the message is not delivered in a nice way, doesn't mean it's not valid. As far as nighttime ascents, I think there's a huge difference between this and deliberately going out in a whiteout: not only are nighttime ascents frequently done, they are standard procedure for any mountain where you need to get an alpine start. As for the "deserve to die" comment, here I'm really confused: originally, I (like Natreb) read it to be a sarcastic reference to what the OP perceived as overly conservative warnings made to her earlier. Now reading her response to Turk397's post, it now appears that she was at least in part serious. So which one is it?
User Avatar
AlexeyD

 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:13 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 56 times in 44 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby MoapaPk » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:11 pm

I'll take a chill pill (metaphorical!) until we see the TR (maybe she'll put it on another site -- then just the link would be nice). The thread was full of good info. Put it through a low-pass filter. Good on ya Kristoria.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7652
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 756 times in 490 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby John Duffield » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:23 pm

I don't want to presume to speak for Kris, but we did Hunter in the Cats together last month and I will say, she's not your run-of-the-mill climber. Tough. Talented.

Given her objectives, getting caught in a whiteout, at some point, is probably inevitable. So the experience would be valuable.

Also, perhaps some of the "death" language was coloured by the WFR course which emphasized precisely that. Photos of bodies etc. I can well imagine, having been a combat medic long ago.
User Avatar
John Duffield

 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:48 pm
Location: New York City, , China
Thanked: 799 times in 443 posts

The following user would like to thank John Duffield for this post
kakakiw, rasgoat

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby nartreb » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm

I'm confused too.

Friday January 7th 11pm depart Harvard Cabin, arrive at summit 1:50 am January 8th, arrive at Harvard Cabin 4:30 am.


use your fricken brain and ask yourself why did it take me under two hours to reach the summit, and more than two and a half to get back down


I'm pretty sure my brain is working well enough to do some simple subtraction. I get 2:50 up, less than 2:40 down (time spent on summit not specified). Nothing remarkable about those times.
User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: online or in boston, Massachusetts, United States
Thanked: 111 times in 90 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby nartreb » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:26 pm

Very few people gave anything but opinions. I wanted facts. I made it very clear that I was only interested in facts.


You hit the "thanks" button on the first fourteen pieces of advice you received, and several more after that. (Plenty of these described terrain and [lack of] bailout options. You didn't really expect people to do your map-reading for you and post bearings, did you?) Two people call your attempt "lame" and you fall to pieces?

Do yourself a favor, keep a copy of this thread to read in a year or two. I think you'll find yourself in a different frame of mind from either the intentional risk-seeking you demonstrated at the beginning of this thread, or seemingly shell-shocked, definitely defensive attitude you're showing now.
User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: online or in boston, Massachusetts, United States
Thanked: 111 times in 90 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby Turk397 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:20 pm

nartreb wrote:Do yourself a favor, keep a copy of this thread to read in a year or two. I think you'll find yourself in a different frame of mind from either the intentional risk-seeking you demonstrated at the beginning of this thread, or seemingly shell-shocked, definitely defensive attitude you're showing now.


.
Turk397

 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:24 am
Location: New York, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby MoapaPk » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:31 pm

KristoriaBlack wrote:If I had died out there you all would have been saying "she got what she deserved."

Naw, we aren't that cold-hearted. There was genuine concern. You could almost hear the sigh of relief when you said you were taking winter climbing classes. There will always be people baiting you on the net; just filter it out.

By some freak fluke of chance I made it back.

No fluke -- you kept your head and used good judgment, and took advantage of options as they presented themselves.

I really do want to read a TR -- but if you don't write one, well that's fine, or if you put it on some other site, that's fine too.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7652
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 756 times in 490 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby JJBrunner » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:29 am

KristoriaBlack wrote:If I had died out there you all would have been saying "she got what she deserved." By some freak fluke of chance I made it back. Now I am simply agreeing with you and saying that you were right and I deserved to die out there. What do you want from me? The only reason I even bothered to give updates here is because people in the forum contacted me and asked. I wasn't in the mood to post those pictures, and I'm not in the mood to talk about it either.

I started this thread asking for navigation advice. Very few people gave anything but opinions. I wanted facts. I made it very clear that I was only interested in facts. You are the ones who were blowing this out of proportion and making it out to be a bigger deal than it was. And now you're turning around and telling me to shut because it was not a big deal. So what was it? If I had died out there, how many of you turncoats would have been like "ha, you got what you deserved?"

Why can't I simply ask a question and get simple factual information? Things like bearings and escape options, or terrain features. Things that would actually be of use for navigation.

I didn't really read the whole thread, but I would never say that!
JJBrunner

 
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:37 am
Location: Simi Valley, California, United States
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby hikerbrian » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:52 pm

KristoriaBlack wrote:If I had died out there you all would have been saying "she got what she deserved."

Not true. You are wrong.

I can see you haven't done too much reading here on SP (let me guess, that's because you're too busy climbing while everyone else here just sits at their computers...). People here tend to respond negatively to posts that scream "I'M SO HARDCORE!!! HOLY SHIT, ANYONE WHO TRIES TO DO WHAT I DO IS GOING TO DIE!!!111" Especially when the trip in question is as you described above. All of us in the Northeast climbing community respect Mt. Washington, but those who have gotten out a little bit refrain from hyping it up any more than need be. Your trip sounds like it was pretty cool. But filled with a remarkable amount of objective danger? Maybe not so much. In addition to a mild flaming, you got a lot of good information and a cool trip from which you returned safely. Not so bad, really.
User Avatar
hikerbrian

 
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 4:32 pm
Location: Sharon, Massachusetts, United States
Thanked: 11 times in 5 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby Snowslogger » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:55 pm

Cool pics, thanks for posting the followup.
User Avatar
Snowslogger

 
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:50 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, United States
Thanked: 7 times in 6 posts

Re: Mt. Washington whiteout navigation plan

Postby Sierra Ledge Rat » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:11 am

Back in the day before there were satellites we used a compass and common sense.
Last edited by Sierra Ledge Rat on Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Sierra Ledge Rat

 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:14 am
Location: Appalachia, United States
Thanked: 240 times in 157 posts

PreviousNext

Return to Eastern US (New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.