This time I’ll only say that the weather was beautiful or as some would say interesting. In spite of unfavorable weather forecasts many people were on the mountain.

I’m very, very sorry for those who take guided trips to learn about mountaineering. Where are the real professional guides I remember from the past? What is going on?

clmbr wrote: Where are the real professional guides I remember from the past?

In Alaska and the Himalaya at the moment.

clmbr,
"Where are the real professional guides I remember from the past? What is going on?"
Could you provide a little more information? Was there a specific incident or situation that you observered that would be helpful for us to know about?
I hope (in spite of the weather) you had a good time up there.
Salud,
JM

hmmm. what news?

Yeah this OP doesn't say much does it?

Jesus Malverde wrote:clmbr,
"Where are the real professional guides I remember from the past? What is going on?"
Could you provide a little more information? Was there a specific incident or situation that you observered that would be helpful for us to know about?
I hope (in spite of the weather) you had a good time up there.
Salud,
JM

Besides a couple destructions, I had a great time during this trip and the weather was a part of that pleasure.

However, my frustration about the new guiding services has been building up over a few years already and it’s not only limited to Mt Shasta but also touches Mt Rainier. I’ll try to be short and still rather general than develop just one specific event.

The past

Shortly, the guides I remember were more mature in age and experience, very friendly, no ego, and easily making constructive conversation. (It was the similar feeling/interaction as I still have with most “climbing” rangers everywhere). They have never got intimidated by seeing me climbing solo in any type of terrain or weather; on the contrary... And they have never had the “showing off” attitude.

Recently

(I see too many young guides with their heads up to cover lack of experience.)

Examples:

1) Over the last few years I’ve noticed more and more people climbing Mt Shasta with a strap around the axe’s shaft rather than the wrist and finally ask why. They told me this is the way the professional guides taught them to avoid the injury (from axe) if they lose the axe (we had this discussion here some time ago). I recognize that this is a new way of teaching, but please explain them that this only applies to the terrain you teach them on: no rocks, cliffs, crevasses or other climbers below on their trajectory; otherwise, you are responsible for their or other people’s deaths or injuries cased buy the falling axe or that climber.

2) Even if you are hired as or pretend to be a professional guide, please provide objective data about the route conditions or even better say nothing, but do not make up stories and conclusion about the feasibility of routes because that is very subjective and in most cases phony, especially stated by an inexperienced person (guide).

3) How the hell you are allowed to teach anything about mountaineering if you do not know, not to mention implement, basic climbing techniques and principles (perhaps except some names)! Till that person has not told me about being a professional guide, I treated that person as a beginner (and was even sorry) but then got really frustrated because it created safety hazard to my team climbing below. I would prefer to recognize a guide by that person’s climbing style/behavior rather than be told, to proof what?

Conclusion

Those were only a few examples.

Mountaineering is a dangerous activity and you should teach/learn the proper way. This is not elementary school when you teach children one way and then when they grow up another way. If you think this is easier or even safer for your students/clients at that point, at least make sure they understand that those techniques are only limited to children garden playgrounds in sunshine, not in real scenarios. But at least teach your guides the proper way of climbing on various terrains, crampons/no crampons, and making proper decisions and calls. These guides are responsible for shaping safety standards in the mountains. If you believe the type of guides I described above do not belong to any of the formal guided company, let’s make sure they will be denied guiding services. In the future I’ll be taking pictures and videos and posting them on Internet, so maybe you will be able to recognize those guides because they refused in providing any information which company they were representing. I do not care about the business model and/or aspect of guiding. This is neither my intention nor responsibility. However, I am concerned about safety aspects in the mountains, including those who improperly teach, those who are improperly taught and those who might be hurt by them (including myself or my teammates) in the future.

Perhaps the mountaineering world, customs, and culture have changed over years (for sure Internet has played a huge role). Perhaps I’ve been climbing too much alone and in solitude and have not realized that till coming back sometimes to more busy routes. Or perhaps all these real mountaineers moved to Alaska and the Himalaya (as suggested by ExcitableBoy) and perhaps I am like this guy living in a jungle not noticing the “Vietnam War” was long time ago over.

Before it was a real pleasure to meet pro guides, now I just try to stay away from them. But I’m still sorry for the new guys who want to learn mountaineering and still concerned about safety in the mountains.

Teach Properly and Climb Safe

I'm not following how these folks are holding their ax leashes.

mrchad9 wrote:I'm not following how these folks are holding their ax leashes.

They don't at all.

Deleted-never mind. Pointless.

Well WTF point is attaching the leash to the ax and nothing else? Just take the damn thing off if you aren't going to use it.

Scott wrote:Deleted-never mind. Pointless.

I said we already have had this discussion in the past. Find it. Or proof that your method is safer than other.

I also do not understand why it'd be better to attach an ax onto the harness as Scott recommends. I can see some convenience, especially if using two, but I really don't see any basis for claiming it is demonstratably safer either in the event of a fall or otherwise.

Apparently you guys missed the sarcasm in the post.

I've never seen anyone using a harness attachment for a single ax either.

I've said before I've thought the rangers present on Shasta are perhaps the best in the business. Still believe that.

And yes... I think the guides up there are a different story. I've only encountered two groups of them enough to actually talk to them. One was rude and a bit full of himself (and yes... young as clmbr points out). The other group was generous with out-of-date beta and poor recommendations, but suddenly because quite interested in what we had to say after doing a seldom climbed route starting well after their recommended start time (and ending well before their anticipated finishing time).

mrchad9 wrote:I've said before I've thought the rangers present on Shasta are perhaps the best in the business.

+1