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Do the Means justify the Ensuing Actions?

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Do the Means justify the Ensuing Actions?

Postby The Chief » Fri May 14, 2010 5:10 pm

Some heavy duty stuff (Closures/Potential Restrictions) going down out there that is affecting all of us.

The Grotto in SOCAL , X-Mass Tree Pass in SONV and of course the current ongoing Closure at Williamson Rock in SOCAL.

Who is at fault... The Land Manager's (TOOL etc) for their ensuing Actions. Or, the climbers/parties involved whose behavior (right or wrong don't matter none) initiated the LM's decision to Act?

Thus, does the "Means" (practices) in which the parties involved acted by, deserve the outcomes which are/have taken place?

Are the parties involved justified in crying foul on the part of the LM's?

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***** Before any of ya's throw shit at me, be advised that on every, and I mean every FA, bolting/rebolting etc evolution where any potential ACCESS issue/violation could arise, that I have partaken in, I first consulted with and got the Areas LM's blessings. That is the way I was taught to do so back in the late 70's/early 80's.******
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Postby nartreb » Fri May 14, 2010 6:51 pm

Who is at fault... right or wrong don't matter none


Mutually exclusive, Chief.
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Postby Rob » Sat May 15, 2010 4:41 am

It's not because of climbers, that Williamson is closed. Everybody knows it's because of the frog. The closure applies to everyone, not just climbers. Hunters, fisherman, miners, heck, even the Pacific Crest Trail hikers have to go around.

The Echo Cliff problem was caused by the actions of only one or two people who broke the law. For most of us, it is a no brainer, that we don't scrape native plants off the wall so it can be climbed, but apparently some people need to be told. I'm suprised they weren't cited. :evil:
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Postby The Chief » Sat May 15, 2010 6:17 am

Rob wrote:It's not because of climbers, that Williamson is closed. Everybody knows it's because of the frog. The closure applies to everyone, not just climbers. Hunters, fisherman, miners, heck, even the Pacific Crest Trail hikers have to go around.


Never was stated it was because the climbers that WR was CLOSED.

Question proposed in this particular Closure, DO 18 MYLF warrant the USFS to CLOSE the entire area and continue to do so indefinitely?
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Postby Guyzo » Sun May 16, 2010 9:42 pm

The Chief wrote:
Rob wrote:It's not because of climbers, that Williamson is closed. Everybody knows it's because of the frog. The closure applies to everyone, not just climbers. Hunters, fisherman, miners, heck, even the Pacific Crest Trail hikers have to go around.


Never was stated it was because the climbers that WR was CLOSED.

Question proposed in this particular Closure, DO 18 MYLF warrant the USFS to CLOSE the entire area and continue to do so indefinitely?



No Freaking way whatsoever.

I never knew they had discovered FROGS at Willie. I thought they only hoped they might show up....somehow. :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Funny this should come up now.

Yesterday, I went to Willie to look around and climb some. I was going to make a trip report about my visit but I don't know how to make one. But I will give a brief one here.

Climber X and I got dropped off, by a Taxi at the old parking lot. We stashed our bikes in the bushes just off the road.

Descending down the old trail brought back memories of the OLD DAYS. Near the bottom of the down climb, we took the scree slope right to the base of the London Wall. The scree skiing was fast and fun. Nothing has changed at the base, some trash and gum wrappers and some official US Fish and Game paperwork was scattered around.

Anyway we did some burns on "Dream Speed" and "Awkward Instant" then we went and climbed "Carpe Diem".... all the bolts look just fine.

Than it was time to split, walking along the stream, we didn't see any frogs at all. The climb back up went without incident. The bike ride back to La Canada went down in no time.

So I guess it's wide open again, you just need to be in stealth mode.

Have at it.

GK

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