by ExcitableBoy » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:26 pm
by MattGreene » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:51 am
by ExcitableBoy » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:53 pm
by mambwe » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:57 pm
by ExcitableBoy » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:03 pm
by DanTheMan » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:25 pm
by runnerdanny » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:13 am
DanTheMan wrote:What is the big difference between a lightweight 7 oz waterproof-breathable shell and a 20 oz Goretex shell. I mean if they both block wind and rain and one is half the price and half the weight shouldn't it be a no-brainer?
DanTheMan wrote:Also, now there are hybrid and waterproof softshells too. What is the functional difference between a waterproof softshell and a waterproof hardshell? I'm looking at the OR Mithril here.
by bearbreeder » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:11 am
DanTheMan wrote:What is the big difference between a lightweight 7 oz waterproof-breathable shell and a 20 oz Goretex shell. I mean if they both block wind and rain and one is half the price and half the weight shouldn't it be a no-brainer?
Also, now there are hybrid and waterproof softshells too. What is the functional difference between a waterproof softshell and a waterproof hardshell? I'm looking at the OR Mithril here.
by hatidua » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:42 am
by DudeThatMustHurt » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:24 pm
by sneakyracer » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:59 pm
hatidua wrote:From the soft shells I've tried (TNF, Patagonia, Montbell, Cloudveil, MHW), those that are marketed as "water resistant" didn't breath much, if any. Those that were presented as "highly breathable" were a sponge as soon as the slightest mist occurred. As such, if I want breathable, I'll take an R1 hoody or similar synthetic top. If I want water resistant, I'll take a hardshell. For me, this is a classic case of "there's no such thing as a free lunch".
A soft shell that claims to be both highly water resistant and highly breathable? (I fell for the marketing early on but realized that simple physics gets in the way of such claims)
by bearbreeder » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:07 am
by Nitrox » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:40 pm
bearbreeder wrote:i think that the term "softshell" is overused ... these days its for whatever the marketing folks think will sell
the original softshell was just pile and pertex designed to be worn next to the skin ... it was to simulate the fur our cavemen ancestors used to wear ... your body heat pushes the moisture out through the pile and pertex ... as long as you stayed active you stayed warm if a bit damp ... the driclime is the bet current example of this ... keep moving and yr fine
then someone got the bright idea that a softshell should keep you somewhat dry in a static situations ... now thats all fine but the problem was the pertex/pile and weave softshells dont provide enough DWR for that so they decided to sandwich membranes inside ... we all know about how well membranes work from goretex
as im sure many have found out the polartec powershield jackets are great for sitting around in belays, but youll often need to take it off on approaches unless its effing cold out there as youll sweat it out, ive had the same issue with windstopper ... either will soak out in enough rain, so you still need to pack a rain jacket in poor weather
the latest mixing of more waterproof or more water resistant membranes with breathable panels look promising ... but you often still pay the weight penalty ... they arent waterproof yet ... so you might have issues in poor weather
consider that a lot of these "softshells" or hybrids weight from 17-26 oz ... a decent windshirt 5 oz, light fleece 10 oz, and light rain jacket 6 oz is 21 oz total and way more flexibility as well as offering full water protection when needed ... seems quite a few "top" climbers use windshirts or very light softshells
of course the softshells are more durable ... but then it might be cheaper to destroy that cheap windshirt than damage that $$$$ membrane softshell
i personally only wear windshirts or weave softshells anymore ... on the other hand if im expecting the mother of all storms .. you bet im wearing the old 20+oz wpb hardshell
i love how in all the yuppie mags TNF kishwar $275 jacket "gear of the year" with polartec powershield pro is gushed over as "very breathable" ... when polartec themselves admit that powershield pro breathes LESS than normal powershield ... wonders of marketing
i do have 2 medium black dead bird gamma powershield and 1 medium black dead bird windstopper jackets in excellent condition if anyone is interested
by minimalistix » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:05 pm
by Norris » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:56 am
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