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Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby Kahuna » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:19 am

seano wrote:IIRC Clyde was fired for leaving a client to fend for himself after falling down a snowfield, because he felt the client had made a stupid mistake. I get the feeling the guy rarely worked well with others.



IRC: The client in question was hostile and refused to follow Norman's directions from the get go. On the route in question, the client decided to part from the group and ascend a far harder and more direct line than what Norman and the group had decided to take. He basically told Norman to fk off and told Norman/group that he was no longer part of the group. Within 30 or so minutes, the client got himself in a rather precarious pos, way over his head, slipped and took a ride.

Irony of this story, not more than a month after being fired by Brower, who does Brower beg and plead with to go find this fella....

Old Norman.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby TheGeneral » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:21 am

A5RP wrote:
seano wrote:IIRC Clyde was fired for leaving a client to fend for himself after falling down a snowfield, because he felt the client had made a stupid mistake. I get the feeling the guy rarely worked well with others.



IRC: The client in question was hostile and refused to follow Norman's directions from the get go. On the route in question, the client decided to part from the group and ascend a far harder and more direct line than what Norman and the group had decided to take. He basically told Norman to fk off and told Norman/group that he was no longer part of the group. Within 30 or so minutes, the client got himself in a rather precarious pos, way over his head, slipped and took a ride.

Irony of this story, not more than a month after being fired by Brower, who does Brower beg and plea with to go find this fella....

Old Norman.


I'm still hunting for the story, not easy to find. BTW, Norman bailed on Dulley, too, don't forget.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby myles » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:17 pm

My understanding is that Clyde was fired from his teaching post after firing "at" some kids joy-riding in his car. Someone is said to have quipped later that he if Clyde had really been shooting at them, someone would have been hit.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby simonov » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:59 pm

The fact remains, he was a cranky old bastard.
He steered with care.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby toxo » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:38 am

Vitaliy M. wrote:Not sure how that relates to my slide show.


All I know is that the Washington Column kitten relates to your slide show.

Image

Vitaliy M. wrote: "Seems their gratitude for my dedicated services to their program was not one bit what I assumed it would be. I have been known to be foolishly trusting at times."
I am sure many can apply this quote to a lot in their life. It is not unusual to get burned by others, especially when you are trying to help them. Not many people out there are honest and well mannered. Most just want to use you and screw you over if it benefits them in any way.


And sometimes such lowly behaviors are the immune responses of humanoid lifeforms who are so insecure and dissatisfied with themselves they have to throw any stick and stone they can grab at those who are currently enjoying success. Sadly, these beings can be encountered at every walk of life, from science, to climbing, to the military.
Yo dawg, we heard you like cops so we put a cop on the phone so you can get pulled over by a cop while talking to another cop. --Yours Truly to the Rising Phoenix
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby Vitaliy M. » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:53 am

If you only knew how bummed I was to see other people taking it home that morning. If we did not go to all you can eat breakfast and were an hour early... : ( cutest kitty ever. Hope he is happy with those people..
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby 3Deserts » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:18 pm

TheGeneral wrote:
A5RP wrote:
IRC: The client in question was hostile and refused to follow Norman's directions from the get go. On the route in question, the client decided to part from the group and ascend a far harder and more direct line than what Norman and the group had decided to take. He basically told Norman to fk off and told Norman/group that he was no longer part of the group. Within 30 or so minutes, the client got himself in a rather precarious pos, way over his head, slipped and took a ride.

Irony of this story, not more than a month after being fired by Brower, who does Brower beg and plea with to go find this fella....


I'm still hunting for the story, not easy to find. BTW, Norman bailed on Dulley, too, don't forget.


Regarding the above anecdotes, per Pavlik's biography of Clyde, the above characterizations of Clyde's behavior and attitude are either partially incorrect, or exaggerated.

The injured client was not so much hostile as hapless and incapable, and, like Clyde, stubborn. He did indeed refuse to follow the steps Clyde had chopped and consequently fell. Clyde refused to tend to the profusely bleeding man. Brower et al fired Clyde for his subsequent callousness, arguing that it didn't represent the values of the club. Clyde was deeply hurt by that.

It's inaccurate to say that Brower came back to Clyde to "beg and plea" with him to go find Pete Starr, especially since it was Francis Farquhar, not Brower, who organized the rescue. Clyde took on the job willingly and solemnly, motivated by a sense of respect for Starr, even though the two had never met. Starr's reputation was well known to Clyde. The story of Clyde's continued efforts to locate Starr well after the official search was called off is well known, and doesn't in any way suggest a man who was cajoled in to the role by anyone, let alone the factually incorrect Brower.

Read the link above. It actually gets the story right.

Finally, regarding Dulley, Clyde didn't abandon him. They were separated in a blizzard while skiing through (or near) Piute Pass and Dulley died of a stroke en route. Clyde went back to recover him later. While Clyde did have some critical words of Dulley, to the effect that if he (Dulley) had just managed to stay with him he'd have survived, he was deeply regretful of the man's death, regret being a feeling one could hardly ascribe to Clyde following the aforementioned dumb client.

These are not hard facts to check.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby Kahuna » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:01 pm

Read the link above. It actually gets the story right.


Pavlik's Book Image sources were gathered from Sierra Club records, for the record. Look at the bibliography in the back.

Skewed towards the SC's position evidently.

The Manning (William) Family and Glenn Dawson are the first to state differently as to the actual course of this particular incident and more in line to what I posted he. Both were long very close acquaintances with Norman. Which as some may actually know, he did not have too many of. Both I have had personal contact with and asked them directly about what the REST OF THE STORY concerning this incident.

Like everything in this world of bio's, sometimes the authors DO NOT research their facts too in depth.

But then don't take my word for it. Glenn Dawson is always warm to seeing anyone at his Nursing Home in Pasadena and Bill Manning still lives in Mammoth and loves sharing his personal stories of having Norman baby sitting his ass till he was 12 years old at his home outside of Big Pine.

For the record, Andy Selters is in the process of writing a far more factual BIO on Norman. Last time I spoke to Bill Manning (who btw was my Boss at the Mammoth/Yosemite Airport and Shipmate from my tour in Antarctica in the early 80's), he is more than available to share his personal side of the story about his 12 years of direct contact with Norman. Norman rented a single bedroom shack from Bills folks for over 15 years at their ranch outside Big Pine.


For the record as well.... anyone that knows anything about Norman, knows straight up that he was most often more bitter about being around city folks that he was pleased. Ansel Adams described him the best in this book, Conversations with Ansel Adams:

Norman was consistently elusive and persnickety. Never really finding time for any of us. He kept to his classics. When he did, he was quick at demanding and had no time for intolerance.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby 3Deserts » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:32 pm

Well, as I said, "per Pavlik."

The Selters book sounds mighty interesting. I'd love to read that when it's done.

I've had thoughts of at least getting to shake Dawson's hand--some of us were just talking about him this weekend--let alone hear stories, but I'm just another guy with a fascination with California's climbing history, and I imagine he's got better things to do than re-tell stories told a thousand times. Like rest and enjoy the sun and light maybe. He's just up the road from me though.

He is a pretty amazing link to history. He was on the Pete Starr recovery mission as well--as you know.

Personally, as someone who's spent far too much of his time in solitude, reading classics, I guess I can relate a little to people with the disposition of someone like Clyde. Would that I had even a fraction of his ability in the mountains...
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby AlexRts » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:52 pm

Is this event still happening? Anyone planning to go?
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby Vitaliy M. » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:30 pm

Yes, although the thread was hijacked, the event will still happen. I know a few members who will show up. Not sure how many more will...
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby clmbr » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:37 am

If anyone drives from San Francisco and have an available seat or wants to carpool, PM me. I’m located near SFSU.

Thanks
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby mrchad9 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:35 am

You jump crevasses on glaciers solo but partner up to drive from San Francisco to Palo Alto?

Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah!
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby kevin trieu » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:11 am

I'm flying back from the Himalayas to attend this historic event.
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Re: Vitaliy M. invades the Sierra Club

Postby simonov » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:18 pm

kevin trieu wrote:I'm flying back from the Himalayas to attend this historic event.


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He steered with care.
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