Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Palisade glacier lake

Regional discussion and conditions reports for the Golden State. Please post partners requests and trip plans in the California Climbing Partners forum.
 

Palisade glacier lake

Postby ElGreco » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:28 am

At an REI presentation on California's glaciers by Tim Palmer last night, an old timer said that the proglacial lake on the Palisade glacier wasn't there 40yrs ago. For what it's worth. Does anyone know this to be true?
User Avatar
ElGreco

 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:06 am
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby asmrz » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:48 am

There is a small glacial lake high above Sam Mack Meadow as you go toward Winchell. That one has been there when I scrambled up Winchell in 1971 and is on maps. If you are talking about another glacial lake, where on Palisades Glacier?
User Avatar
asmrz

 
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 7:52 am
Location: Idyllwild, San Jacinto Mountains, California, United States
Thanked: 146 times in 99 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby coldfoot » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:51 am

Have a look here:

http://glaciers.research.pdx.edu/image-galleries/palisade-glacier

I assume you mean the small unnamed lake at the toe of the glacier (while guessing that Alois is thinking of Sam Mack Lake?)

In some of the historical photos the unnamed lake is not visible, although I don't know if it could just be covered
in ice and snow, even though many of them are summer photos.
coldfoot

 
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:58 am
Location: United States
Thanked: 14 times in 12 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby boyblue » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:31 am

FWIW, here's a view from the summit I took in August, 1979. So, 33 years ago this year. There does appear to be a lake there- maybe a bit larger than it appears due to being partially frozen. Some of the darker areas around the lake may be deposits of rock debris.
PalisadeGlacier19790810.jpg
PalisadeGlacier19790810.jpg (852.69 KiB) Viewed 1105 times


Oops, make that 34 years ago this year... :)
Last edited by boyblue on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
boyblue

 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:30 am
Location: Newark, California, United States
Thanked: 71 times in 44 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby ElGreco » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:48 am

Yes, that's the lake, Boyblue. Between Gayley and the moraine, NE from NPal. So if it was there 34 years ago, then either something happened just before that time and the lake formed (not that likely), or the guy didn't remember correctly, or he saw it while it was stil frozen/snowed over.

Alois, I wasn't referring to the Winchel side, but that looks like a good site to check out!
User Avatar
ElGreco

 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:06 am
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby Vitaliy M. » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:58 am

Yea, would be interesting to know when exactly he was on the glacier and how heavy of a snow year it was.

It wasn't there last February!
User Avatar
Vitaliy M.

 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:23 am
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Thanked: 287 times in 215 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby boyblue » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:06 am

As I recall, 1979 was an average snow year. I'm hoping another member will post a picture of the glacier from the summit taken during a recent 'average snow year'- preferably summer, of course. It would be interesting to compare them.
User Avatar
boyblue

 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:30 am
Location: Newark, California, United States
Thanked: 71 times in 44 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby coldfoot » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:54 am

This isn't quite what you asked for, but it is a picture of the glacier from Gayley Camp last August. That was a low snow year. Even so, the glacier's condition is abominable, and going by your picture it's changed a lot. http://www.summitpost.org/palisade-glacier-from-gayley-camp/834355

Image
coldfoot

 
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:58 am
Location: United States
Thanked: 14 times in 12 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby Bob Burd » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:45 pm

boyblue wrote:As I recall, 1979 was an average snow year. I'm hoping another member will post a picture of the glacier from the summit taken during a recent 'average snow year'- preferably summer, of course. It would be interesting to compare them.


Here's a shot from August of 2002:
Image

Another from August of 2000:
Image
User Avatar
Bob Burd
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 10:42 pm
Location: San Jose, California, United States
Thanked: 458 times in 237 posts

The following user would like to thank Bob Burd for this post
boyblue

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:00 pm

The lake is pretty big in boyblue's 33 yo pic there. Sounds like the old dude at REI doesn't know what he is talking about... and needs to back up his whimsical statements.
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4166
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1198 times in 811 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby boyblue » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:19 pm

I 'borrowed' a portion of the 1947 aerial view from the link in coldfoot's post above. (http://glaciers.research.pdx.edu/image-galleries/palisade-glacier) If you look carefully at the center of the circled part of the 1947 view, you can see the exact same snowfields that are in the upper left corner of my 1979 image. This seems, IMO, to indicate that the pictures were both taken under very similar conditions regarding the amount of residual winter snow. Then look at the size of the pond in each shot- definitely a difference in size.

PalisadeGlacierAerial1947.jpg
1947
PalisadeGlacierAerial1947.jpg (260.2 KiB) Viewed 1103 times

PalisadeGlacier19790810.jpg
1979
PalisadeGlacier19790810.jpg (852.69 KiB) Viewed 1103 times


Note that those snowfields are entirely absent in Bob's 2002 view and nearly so in the 2000 view. Climatically, his were taken later in the season.
Last edited by boyblue on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
boyblue

 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:30 am
Location: Newark, California, United States
Thanked: 71 times in 44 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby Marcsoltan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:27 pm

Took this shot from my campsite on top of the ridge just below Mt Gayley. It's about 15 or 20 years old.

http://www.summitpost.org/global-warming-or-spring-thaw/465060/c-150406Image
User Avatar
Marcsoltan

 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:36 am
Location: California, United States
Thanked: 74 times in 25 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby boyblue » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:38 pm

The Chief wrote:Now this interesting.... 1960 and the Glacier is almost completely gone!

Image

Twenty years LATER, 1980, and look! Back and then some.

Image


That caught my attention, too. I think the bare ice slope (compared with the neve region that is closer to the mountain) is hard to see in the black and white image.
Google Earth view- imagery dated 09/02/2012:
PalisadeGlacier201208.jpg
2012
PalisadeGlacier201208.jpg (243.63 KiB) Viewed 870 times

Same image rendered without color data (B&W):
PalisadeGlacier201208BW.jpg
2012 Black and White
PalisadeGlacier201208BW.jpg (436.66 KiB) Viewed 870 times

Campared with the 1960 image:
PalisadeGlacier1960.jpg
1960
PalisadeGlacier1960.jpg (103.63 KiB) Viewed 870 times

Note that the proglacial lake does appear significantly larger in the 2012 views.
Last edited by boyblue on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
boyblue

 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:30 am
Location: Newark, California, United States
Thanked: 71 times in 44 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby ElGreco » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:05 pm

More info and an animation here: http://glaciers.research.pdx.edu/glaciers-california

It seems that 1060 was a low at the time, which was followed by a slight rebound that lasted into the late 90s, which gave way to a decline since then and the lowest extent in 2009 (no data since then).

The lake itself has shifted around a little, and grown. It's actually very impressive to watch the water "vanish" into the rock at the downhill end of the lake as it drains. There's no visible surface stream. The calving uphill is also impressive - we camped there this fall.
User Avatar
ElGreco

 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:06 am
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Re: Palisade glacier lake

Postby SpazzyMcgee » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:13 am

The Chief wrote:Now this interesting.... 1960 and the Glacier is almost completely gone!

Image

Twenty years LATER, 1980, and look! Back and then some.

Image


Do additional, smaller snowfields in the bottom pic suggest it was taken earlier in the year?
SpazzyMcgee

 
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: Oakland, California
Thanked: 15 times in 11 posts

Next

Return to California

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.