Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Both beta and photos

Suggestions and comments about SummitPost's features, policies, and procedures. Post bugs here.
 

Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:39 am

SP is unique in that its rock/mtn/area/route pages are supposed to provide both good info and illustrative photos embedded in the text. What if most of the images featured on an SP page come from outside of SP, e.g. from Wikipedia? Should such a page not be thought of as a poor page, especially if there's little firsthand beta? Does it deserve a 10/10 or rather less than 6/10? (Over 70% of the votes cast on one recently posted page like that are 10s.)
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Josh Lewis » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:15 am

For a while now I've admired your willingness to break out of the conformity of SP voting habits. Unfortunately people usually don't look very hard at the given information. I've seen a 10/10 on a less than a sentience trip report! :o (if I recall it was only a header) Images hosted from outside SP are okay but preferably to credit the author unless your the owner (I've done this at least once). So the important thing is to vote honestly. If you think it's the best of SP, by all means vote a 10/10. If you believe a page needs work, vote 7 or a 6 or a 1. Voting honestly enables the voting system to do it's intended job which is to sort content. Who wants to see a stolen page (info that they took with zero credits and possibly copyright) as one of the top rated of the week? Not me.
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
User Avatar
Josh Lewis

 
Posts: 2306
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington, The Cloudiest Place on Earth, United States
Thanked: 500 times in 331 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Josh Lewis wrote:Images hosted from outside SP are okay but preferably to credit the author unless your the owner (I've done this at least once).

Personally, I’d say they may be OK if they are an addition, not the bulk.
Josh Lewis wrote:Who wants to see a stolen page (info that they took with zero credits and possibly copyright) as one of the top rated of the week? Not me.

Neither do I. We wouldn't like SP to become a mere copy of other sites, would we?
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

The following user would like to thank yatsek for this post
lcarreau, Marcsoltan, Silvia Mazzani

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Bob Sihler » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:11 pm

yatsek wrote:SP is unique in that its rock/mtn/area/route pages are supposed to provide both good info and illustrative photos embedded in the text. What if most of the images featured on an SP page come from outside of SP, e.g. from Wikipedia? Should such a page not be thought of as a poor page, especially if there's little firsthand beta? Does it deserve a 10/10 or rather less than 6/10? (Over 70% of the votes cast on one recently posted page like that are 10s.)


People vote mindlessly without considering context, captions, authenticity, etc. It's an old problem.

Remember, not long ago people on this site were drooling all over stolen, photoshopped pictures that were obviously so to some of us but apparently not to most since they were reaping votes, POTD/POTW status, and all kinds of laudatory comments.

Check out the votes on this picture, which I can say with 99% certainty is not the SP member's: http://www.summitpost.org/psychofatboy/863841.

So many things about it scream that it is not by the member. A quick look on Google confirms that the image is used by other sources and in other contexts. Yet people vote on this tiny picture that has no caption and which has a watermark that suggests it is by someone else. After all, if you wanted to show your own pictures but protect your copyright, wouldn't you post something large enough so that the watermark would be readable?

This is part of why I do very little voting anymore. It's not just that people vote 10 too often on pages that don't deserve it; it's that many people seem unable to discern quality and authenticity. Or they are unconcerned about even trying.

Google results: https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZittZlJc3Eor0V7GBN_1gybK0VXyrfVVztsGoD11DC3aloyx-WH0ulgk8S0CcMc5eZPYMvh3-WmSh348doYjtO8_1RwX2rUIOEm_1q6pcBb57h7EipYauNb-jxgIpB_1f-XxSoxGw5dh3VFGlteHv_1l0VY82WU3yvb4K9eQyVPNwRZO331X9fwqFVAoP0MRyVyU_1wa4lsDXbREdedcHfQqIQYsrM-h-57kmCESeLOodqeirSy1tJc0vYDG9EpdkZN2vXckt6afuAHtcBzv2OFXtTZv2l54dMCwReFIdON-MBjuCi7FPLQDiaBpMj6Md5fcf2B6hqCCPOZ3NtHonisXv3iB4fJw3-heDpi0lovDGImT-Y8IaOte4Ax7zVAkTfed7k9xrtu6aye4up-HzizHkjSqzyEGXtgKhRs65pr9eBbkw62c2y8Rpu8S6Joo-3ujZkzBBBCJPdZhYYY-ekrsbMSEbVfdv0NiRiJ1k0bRhi1pJowdiUxP4SMR0dP4EflhYnQeo7-TBrFOFih50-zYunCUOTyPPiG7HMnKo_1yOLcI2suyqTWVXcv4WzDQmoYOg5p5J_12sLqG9xn8EA20d_1Emyfe3W9UYIq7B_1ix_1R3o8VZrTCJdJ785BZB2xPG511e5yExbkMMi-YGDCH6MwGegprzMSrzTFcCPfkiSx0h4MA9Df6KSgjHi2rTxG94v3V6dYwKzdNIhZktTjLCnvJeQXP4s_1T492VgVwGhJ5I9iCzklXoCzKPp_1uG-PB7d1mkO-C_1_1UOol4GLe2E5oVePEg74-51rLxqkq5ngPoCcw6S37DV7kZqhRkqXRh9EAqzyCpj6rHc4MlTTGI1MNVn6ay4_1RcJZwuiKuEUkrKR_1JyU6ngaFfr2urQIkf98BN9wF_1yXe5brUZhKDI9KNbcwmSL3os70t6vR1CQrMtLMVUx51GqDyNgRwxvgLm6VuhXBZxidCnStrNKbO1ztsfGC1VvVxaQWQZjlLCAUWBNB2wTXLYd0BaD-Lf_1woHR-KwbykvaeVZetWsZt7DGWTCk_1QFq5CqGlRLonJb_1pH-KhKl8Vs31huLeA2YlNwgehXt8c3s220AWwobGWeqDGVjB-1M0G0Wd6A58dA_1SVx3hLyP1PG2qj-GgT9EC_1bTCfY_1WI8Ts6l4mWNd9aiglZp_1QOUwmoa82NSYLNdJT2M_1CQGRvP5lNe3HZy3I2I_1aHQttFlc7-ZVbDj3IERdDL8rT_1i9rAlWf6b2pUJHCRWMFyHFPOa05AdaaqrcTpnL-TTKPVurVG0JHdPuTxp0Fk9XN-a1kcJQjTp2xkYfowe1OaSlp3-GGLtOZELJADp8y_1xqEiFliN2dE_1LqTYxKXnhd4h6fCvwQnVbQ7dm5pa2yt-0JpWCDz2J3EtJ3F9mmvDIoFdnyPyt40xIgGcDAX2bcFOOoTOGKphGlBpN6eaL6HEQTO5i1otvJIyg6yRQBgdjYlVpLQrxDEghzrWFCmWXRNWaDCJS2DGwg06COqP718zs_1uUKIuDGUUqf0o8&bih=785&biw=1440
"Alcohol is like love. The first kiss is magic, the second is intimate, the third is routine. After that you take the girl's clothes off."

--Terry Lennox, The Long Goodbye (Raymond Chandler)
User Avatar
Bob Sihler
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 7359
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:20 pm
Location: Herndon, Virginia
Thanked: 1879 times in 1055 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Scott » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:26 pm

Should such a page not be thought of as a poor page


Yes.

Also, if the page (or photo) is plagiarized without permission, please point it out in a link and we can do a little digging and delete it if necessary.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7479
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 604 times in 325 posts

The following user would like to thank Scott for this post
yatsek

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Josh Lewis » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:07 pm

In the future before posting crazy long url's it might be handy to shrink it. So I can make the thread "Both beta and photos" go from both-beta-and-photos-t66051.html to Both beta and photos.

The code looks like this:

Code: Select all
[url=http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/both-beta-and-photos-t66051.html#]Both beta and photos[/url]


BB code mimics HTML but instead of <> it uses [] and instead of href= it uses url= for it's parameters. But remembering this assumes you know how to make an HTML link on your own. :wink: And it's more work. A simple way of thinking about it is to use the url button, place in a equal sign after the word url, place the link in there instead, and put text after the ] bracket. 3 easy steps.

Oh c'mon Bob, you don't like Burchey's photo of the day? Look at how well crafted that bird is flying with white glitter around it. :wink:
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
User Avatar
Josh Lewis

 
Posts: 2306
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington, The Cloudiest Place on Earth, United States
Thanked: 500 times in 331 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Bob Sihler » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:23 pm

I'd rather be lazy, Josh. Copying and pasting a url suits me better than doing all that other crap!
"Alcohol is like love. The first kiss is magic, the second is intimate, the third is routine. After that you take the girl's clothes off."

--Terry Lennox, The Long Goodbye (Raymond Chandler)
User Avatar
Bob Sihler
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 7359
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:20 pm
Location: Herndon, Virginia
Thanked: 1879 times in 1055 posts

The following user would like to thank Bob Sihler for this post
Buz Groshong

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby lcarreau » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:57 pm

Bob Sihler wrote:
People vote mindlessly ...

Check out the votes on this picture, which I can say with 99% certainty is not the SP member's: http://www.summitpost.org/psychofatboy/863841.



You guys are WAY too trigger-happy. All of you. There's such thing as being overwhelmed and over-inundated with mindful images ...

Sure, everybody loves eye-candy .... but everybody ALSO needs beta, even though they don't always vote on it .... :wink:


Josh Lewis wrote:
Oh c'mon Bob, you don't like Burchey's photo of the day? Look at how well crafted that bird is flying with white glitter around it. :wink:


Josh, the CORRECT Wikipedia definition of this high-flying bird is :

"Master Glim-feather"
User Avatar
lcarreau

 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 pm
Location: Court of the Crimson King, Arizona, United States
Thanked: 900 times in 677 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:26 pm

Bob Sihler wrote:This is part of why I do very little voting anymore. It's not just that people vote 10 too often on pages that don't deserve it; it's that many people seem unable to discern quality and authenticity. Or they are unconcerned about even trying.

Leaving aside the question why some of those who don't care do bother to vote 10 on anything, yes, it seems that most people are either unable to discern quality or just don't care. Exactly for this reason, the votes of those who vote more carefully can be important, especially as far as pages which aren't very good are concerned.
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Scott » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:44 pm

You guys are WAY too trigger-happy. All of you.


If you mean deleting the photo, it wasn't his and the member himself deleted it. He did add three more of the same photo though. Weird.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7479
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 604 times in 325 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:20 am

Josh Lewis wrote:For a while now I've admired your willingness to break out of the conformity of SP voting habits. (...) Voting honestly enables the voting system to do it's intended job which is to sort content.

One guy on whose pages I've voted (6-10) has just voted 5-6 on almost every page of mine. :lol: But half of the people respond positively (among them the person whose work prompted me to start this thread) by improving their pages instead of making fools of themselves.
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:51 pm

Feel free to blow the whistle to us if you need bad votes removed. Revenge down votes are not taken kindly in these parts. :wink: It's rare, but I've seen revenge votes in the past. Hopefully they don't have much power behind them.
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
User Avatar
Josh Lewis

 
Posts: 2306
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington, The Cloudiest Place on Earth, United States
Thanked: 500 times in 331 posts

The following user would like to thank Josh Lewis for this post
yatsek

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:46 am

Josh Lewis wrote:Feel free to blow the whistle to us if you need bad votes removed. Revenge down votes are not taken kindly in these parts. :wink: It's rare, but I've seen revenge votes in the past. Hopefully they don't have much power behind them.

They don't have much power and actually they tell more about the voter than about the pages. Let them stay till the guy matures and deletes them himself.
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby Josh Lewis » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:32 pm

The unfortunate truth is that they probably won't. Even if they do mature, they probably won't go through the effort of going back to them. Less than a year ago some freaked out about my 8/10 on one of their photos and down voted a bunch of mine (as well as pages). He sent me a PM and we worked out a deal and had them all removed. In my case he is one of those guys who keeps track of stuff.
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
User Avatar
Josh Lewis

 
Posts: 2306
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington, The Cloudiest Place on Earth, United States
Thanked: 500 times in 331 posts

Re: Both beta and photos

Postby yatsek » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:21 am

In my case, if he does mature, I’m sure he will make the effort – we know each other well enough. :wink:
User Avatar
yatsek

 
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Poland
Thanked: 49 times in 38 posts

Next

Return to Site Feedback

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.