Just was wondering about others perceptions

So as a single father of two girls this question goes through my head, especially as climbing partners have kids.

Is avoiding risk good or bad,.

Just some background. So, I've climbed for 42 years around the world, and have never had an accident that I needed to see the doctor. I've taken falls onto a rope upwards of 60ft, spent 2 yrs just doing R/X climbs, climbed in the Himalayas, in Peru..

But when it comes to running, have been hit by cars multiple times, once requiring major surgery. Biking twice, was unconscious for two days, and the second time I broke my neck (4 bones, 7x which I now sport some amazing hardwear).

So is avoiding risk any better. This year I had two skin biopsies for possible skin cancer after a routine exam (both negative), and have just finished a month of tests for other cancers after a work physical (I work with VERY potent drugs as an occupation) came back very concerning (results is that I probably don't have cancer but lets re-test again in a couple of months).

For me, the answer, is accepting or avoiding risk is neither the right or wrong answer.I figure that I have to be true to who I am, but love my kids, and loved ones unconditionally and with my whole heart, and all my energy.

Just am wondering what other peoples perceptions are.

Just want others perspectives.

For me, it wasn't so much being a parent but my mountian biking accident. I am more conservative about what routes I think are reasonable and what aren't. Before, if the first piece of gear went it between 25ft to worst case 60ft off the ground, I'd still go for it. Nowadays, with all the hardwear in my neck, I know that next time I won't be so lucky (and I don't want my kids top have to deal with a dad who is quad-.... the HBO special "State of Play" episode " Broken" is pretty good at that. . I still rock and ice climb, ski (mostly at night), still mountain bike, still hoping to free some routes, and go back when my kids are a little older to attempt routes I have previously failed at in Peru, but some routes for me, I look at and think... "know what, its not worth it...."

My dad died in a mountaineering accident when I was three, and now I'm a father myself. I've also lost a good friend to the mountains, and known some families of others who died. I tell myself all the usual, that they died doing what they loved, that I'm glad my father didn't give up on his passions because of me, and so on, and I do believe those things are true. But damn, I also really wish he would have dialed it back just a bit, long enough that he could have gone climbing with me. There's half a lifetime of exploration, fun and adventure he might still have had. For myself, I'm very far from a serious mountaineer (something that might be different if my dad had lived), but I still do plenty of things in the outdoors that lots of people would consider risky. But now that I have a son, I definitely try not to push my luck, and I find that pushing my luck just isn't as much fun as it once was. I know I could still die from a freak accident in a desert canyon (not to mention on the highway), but I'd at least prefer to die from bad luck rather than bad decision making. Whether specific goals are "worth it" always has to be a personal choice that depends a lot on context and circumstances, but I definitely think your kids should be a significant factor in those choices.

Really well said. ("But damn, I also really wish...").

I really resisted the message to dial it back as a parent of young boys. I probably even overcompensated in the other direction. Being sensitive to messages from society has it's drawbacks!

It took a long time, but now, I naturally take joy in watching them in the phase they are now (they are 10). I don't have to prove anything to myself in the hills. And therefore, quite naturally, the "sharpness" of the mountain days decreases. More likely to be a south slope than a north. More likely to be a relaxed family picnic in a meadow than some crumbly "exploratory" climb. For me anyway, "should do" didn't work.

I hope that's a useful thought, all the best!

A good and important question.

I didn't get into mountaineering until after my daughter was born. Since I've started, I've wrestled with the risk and the time away (however limited it may be).

I can say with absolute certainty that having a wife and daughter at home has, even at the most subconscious level, made me limit the risks I am willing to take. Sure I have all my finances set up in case something happens, but its simply too soon to leave this world, and I have no desire to not be here.

That being said, two important things: I am the person I am, in part, because of my time in the mountains. I suspect many on this site share a similar sentiment. I could totally stop spending time outdoors and on mountains and eliminate that particular risk, but I won't like who I am after that. And I suspect that the man that my wife and daughter would find me a very different person. They love me for who I am, and that includes my time spent on the mountain. Second, my daughter needs to see that things are possible. I'm not the President, so when she asks me if she can be President I say yes and have to convince her. Same thing for a doctor, and a teacher. But for all the things in the world that at the age of 5 seem impossible and hard and beyond her grasp (and let's be clear, she things that being quiet for 5 minutes is beyond her grasp), I want to show her that putting in a lot of effort and time and energy into something can have huge payouts. That's a big mountain, a huge glacier, lots of snow, a heavy bag....and yes, her Dada (who percentage wise still spends most of his life sitting at a computer) went all the way to the top.

It's important to understand the risks you're taking (or hire someone who does) in the outdoors in general and especially in the mountains. And drawing a line at a certain point is critical.

I've been a single mother for 15 years and a climber for 14 of those years. All I can say is follow your heart and find the balance.

Avoiding risk is bad. That's the simple answer to your question. I think life without risk isn't any fun and it's not particularly rewarding.

That being said, avoiding certain types of risk, I think can be very positive. It can lead to a healthier, fuller, and ultimately longer life, which in my book is better than the opposite.

Now, what risks should we avoid and what risks shouldnt we avoid? Who knows? But when comparing risks, make sure we compare apples to apples. There are risks we take everyday --- some we know about and others we dont. I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare climbing risk to the risk of brain cancer or a car crash.

But when talking about climbing risk, I usually ask myself does the ends justify the means? I've bailed on Liberty Ridge as well as some routes in Peru because of my kids. I've bailed on routes all over the place for weather, fatigue, route finding, etc... each time, the reasons for bailing were crystal clear. The ends did not justify the means.

After having kids, I find just as much enjoyment in life from dialing back my climbing ambitions as I did before I had kids with loftier ones. I won't ever stop playing in the mountains, there is way too much to do, even for guys with kids...

I wouldn't say that avoiding risk is a bad thing. Risk is a natural part of life but, as a parent, I prefer to avoid unnecessary or unjustified risk. I've been climbing since I was 13 and have done some necky stuff. Partner bailed on an El Cap attempt? let me go onsight solo Snake Dike. Couldn't find a partner for Whitney's East Face, I'll just go third class that in a day by myself. After having kids, alot of that changed, not necessarily as a conscious decision but in part because something inside me changed and the risk felt very different. After my second kid, I took a solo trip over Shepherd's Pass and climbed Mt. Tyndall's N. Rib. It was pretty mellow, but I had a couple of moments where the exposure hit and I had to calm myself down and talk myself through something that never would have caused any concern before. So, in some ways, my change to risk wasn't a conscious one, but seemingly unconscious.

There are not guarantees though, as CClaude pointed out. I'm reminded of an article Barry Blanchard wrote in Alpinist about Mt. Robson. He described a couple of friends who seriously cut back doing serious alpine ascents after starting families only to have other things befall them. I sometimes wonder if our future are plotted in ways we don't control. Do what keeps you sane, but remember what you're coming home to when it's decision time. I've never regretted avoiding risk but often kick myself when I've taken unnecessary ones. My kids are what really matter now, not routes or summits.

Well said Fatdad, and thank you for the insights JFrishman III. A climbing partner and I were discussing rock routes yesterday, especially one specifically that we have both sussed out on TR, which is pretty hard and marginally protected. we both said its a route that we wouldn't lead,although we possibly could physically, but its not worth it, there are other things.