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"The mountains are not a gym"

Post general questions and discuss issues related to climbing.
 

Postby Ze » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:02 am

yeah I don't listen to music out there. I was out for 15 hrs last Saturday and had no desire to listen to anything other than the sounds around me...


as for Vibram Five Fingers - they promote a forefoot strike and reduce impact forces - which reduces the loudness of running and brings us even closer to nature :P
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Postby MoapaPk » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:20 am

FortMental wrote: While we're at it, let's ask SP members how many native Americans they've encountered on their hikes/climbs.... Then ask how many religiously inclined (no pun intended) indigenous peoples were encountered on other climbs of mountains around the world.


Define "Native American." I often hike with a guy who is more than half Inca, and see lots of folks who are likely more than half Amerind by descent.
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Postby PellucidWombat » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:41 am

I love the mountains for the variety of experiences they can provide.

Sometimes I go to the mountains for "cardio", bagging peaks and churning out miles and elevation as fast as I can. Other times I go to work on technique in climbing, or sometimes purely for adventure and exploration, not quite knowing where I'm going.

In recent years I've started seeing the mountains as a place to go for art. I see it everywhere, and lately I've been planning some trips to areas in mountains (or even to particular summits) based purely on the photography potential.

Fast and hard dayhikes are nice, but miss out on some of the experience. However, overnight trips where you are moving slowly and lugging a big pack suffer the same problem. So does only doing peaks by their easiest routes in their easiest seasons, or only seeking out the the technical lines and forgoing routes that aren't hard enough.

The mountains are a church/spiritual place for many, but they are much more than that. The only thing that gets me shaking my head is when people fail to explore some of this variety outside of one niche experience.

As for MP3 players, I don't see a problem using them so long as you use common sense and not wear them where being able to hear is important - e.g. dangerous animals, rockfall potential, etc. just like how I choose when to listen to them on my bicycle in the city.
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Postby SoCalHiker » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:52 am

Ze wrote:as for Vibram Five Fingers - they promote a forefoot strike and reduce impact forces - which reduces the loudness of running and brings us even closer to nature :P


Hi, how are you? :)

I thought that they might have some ergonomical (?) advantage. But they look odd. I've seen a few out there wearing them and I just can't help to laugh.
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Postby butitsadryheat » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:33 am

PellucidWombat (edited by me) wrote:I love the mountains for the variety of experiences they can provide...
...in recent years I've started seeing the mountains as a place to go for art. I see it everywhere, and lately I've been planning some trips to areas in mountains (or even to particular summits) based purely on the photography potential...

...Fast and hard dayhikes are nice, but miss out on some of the experience. However, overnight trips where you are moving slowly and lugging a big pack suffer the same problem....

As for MP3 players, I don't see a problem using them so long as you use common sense and not wear them where being able to hear is important - e.g. dangerous animals, rockfall potential, etc. just like how I choose when to listen to them on my bicycle in the city.


+1

Good post
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Postby Diggler » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:07 am

FortMental wrote:Few indigenous populations, aside from assorted "Holy elites" have a culture of actually going into mountains for a spiritual experience. As for the US, I'll bet that for every peak peppered with some native religious artifact, there are thousands.... thousands that are not. (Read early accounts of surveys and explorations). While we're at it, let's ask SP members how many native Americans they've encountered on their hikes/climbs.... Then ask how many religiously inclined (no pun intended) indigenous peoples were encountered on other climbs of mountains around the world.


Image

http://protectbearbutte.com

This is one example. Simply being on the site is to experience- summiting is not necessary, I'd say (when I was there years ago, the atmosphere there was holy, for me anyway). I'd say that the reason that one doesn't see many native Americans in the mountains is that, percentage-wise, there aren't a lot of them out there compared to pretty much most other ethnicities I can think of. They are around, though. Also, many are still on reservations, most of which are far away from many of the major population centres that many of those reading this habitate. Some of the holy sites are on/near reservations, places that most of us won't visit any time soon. Shiprock is a good example of a holy mountain in the US that the "locals" frown upon people going to strictly to climb. In fact, I think that the mountains I can think of native Americans holding as holy are frequently too 'holy' to climb. Another example is Cave Rock on the shores of Lake Tahoe- after a lengthy battle, climbing was banned from the formation (it was, however, a sport climbing area- filled with bolts).
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Postby The Chief » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:16 am

let's ask SP members how many native Americans they've encountered on their hikes/climbs....

Quite a few in my neck of the woods actually on a regular basis.

Here is one local NA that is one of the best in the world and comes from a long blood line of local NA warriors.
His Father did a great and powerful job in preparing
and teaching him the true values of the mtns...
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Postby Ze » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:29 am

SoCalHiker wrote:I thought that they might have some ergonomical (?) advantage. But they look odd. I've seen a few out there wearing them and I just can't help to laugh.


I'm interested in them but I'd probably cut my ankle on a rock or something on a trail. I do run barefoot a mile or two around the track, it's quite liberating :)
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Postby Deb » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:34 am

Alpinist wrote:Trail running is fine so long as you're not wearing these.

Image

The KSOs aren't quite the right model for running on trail. Trek Sport or Bikila is the ticket. And what's wrong with 5-Fingers anyway? I run in them. :cry:
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Postby Day Hiker » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:16 am

Deb wrote:And what's wrong with 5-Fingers anyway? I run in them. :cry:


"Oh, it looks good on you though."
\
Image

(Crappy image, but anyone culturally literate will get the reference.)
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Postby dskoon » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:34 am

Deb wrote:
Alpinist wrote:Trail running is fine so long as you're not wearing these.

Image

The KSOs aren't quite the right model for running on trail. Trek Sport or Bikila is the ticket. And what's wrong with 5-Fingers anyway? I run in them. :cry:


Well, I've seen a few wearing these around the city, and heard positives about them, but still don't know much about them. They offer enough support for running? Bit like running barefoot I spose. I was thinking of getting some for camp shoes/slippers/ whatever you might call them.
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Postby Alpinist » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:30 pm

dskoon wrote:
Deb wrote:
Alpinist wrote:Trail running is fine so long as you're not wearing these.

Image

The KSOs aren't quite the right model for running on trail. Trek Sport or Bikila is the ticket. And what's wrong with 5-Fingers anyway? I run in them. :cry:


Well, I've seen a few wearing these around the city, and heard positives about them, but still don't know much about them. They offer enough support for running? Bit like running barefoot I spose. I was thinking of getting some for camp shoes/slippers/ whatever you might call them.

Deb's feet probably look a damn site better in them than mine would. I'm not sure those things would contain my 6 inch Bunion. :oops:
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Postby mvs » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:04 pm

Dow Williams wrote:
mvs wrote:I agree Bob. I get this vibe from people grimacing at me as I run by with an mp3 player on a trail. I'm out having fun, exercising hard. I don't think that should ruin a more spiritual or contemplative experience for anyone else.


I will run with an MP3 on paved trails in town, but never on the dirt paths. My wife has in the past and I have given her hell for it since we did lose a friend that way. This last week, under the power lines behind our old place, a young man ran right up on a 900lb grizzly. The grizzly was eating berries and actually thought it was under attack! Witnesses turned in the report, but the young man never came forward, out of embarrassment possibly. After the grizzly reared, stopped the runner, he then scattered. Man, I bet that added some pep to his step for the rest of his run.


Yep, that's good advice. When things get "technical" I turn off the music. Actually there was a bear in the Austrian/German mountains a few years ago, the newspapers made a huge deal out of it. Apparently he came from Romania, through Italy to Austria. What did they do? Wanted to shoot it immediately. Didn't know how. Hired a guy from Norway to do it. :roll:
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Postby Charles » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:09 pm

mvs wrote:
Dow Williams wrote:
mvs wrote:I agree Bob. I get this vibe from people grimacing at me as I run by with an mp3 player on a trail. I'm out having fun, exercising hard. I don't think that should ruin a more spiritual or contemplative experience for anyone else.


I will run with an MP3 on paved trails in town, but never on the dirt paths. My wife has in the past and I have given her hell for it since we did lose a friend that way. This last week, under the power lines behind our old place, a young man ran right up on a 900lb grizzly. The grizzly was eating berries and actually thought it was under attack! Witnesses turned in the report, but the young man never came forward, out of embarrassment possibly. After the grizzly reared, stopped the runner, he then scattered. Man, I bet that added some pep to his step for the rest of his run.


Yep, that's good advice. When things get "technical" I turn off the music. Actually there was a bear in the Austrian/German mountains a few years ago, the newspapers made a huge deal out of it. Apparently he came from Romania, through Italy to Austria. What did they do? Wanted to shoot it immediately. Didn't know how. Hired a guy from Norway to do it. :roll:

I thought they just wanted to tranquillise him and move him out and he got poached - anyway, bad bad that they shot poor old Bruno
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